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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Lib Dems sued over 10-year ban and 'sinister witch hunt' by activists

56 replies

FindTheTruth · 11/06/2021 23:29

Wakefield MP candidate
uk.newschant.com/politics/abuse-victim-sues-lib-dems-after-ten-year-ban-over-trans-women-arent-women-stance/

"The mother of two, who escaped an abusive companion, was first investigated in 2018 after activists complained about her “troublesome” opposition to opening women’s refuges to males who really feel they’re women, with out safeguards for rape and home violence victims."

“Within day to day life I’ve got trans friends, and if you’ve got somebody who wants to be treated as a woman socially, I believe everybody should do that, be polite and give them their preferred name"

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/06/11/abuse-victim-sues-lib-dems-ten-year-ban-trans-women-arent-women/
(sorry don't have a share token)

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 12/06/2021 08:09

@AnyOldPrion

From the Telegraph:

A Lib Dem spokesman said: “The party is currently carrying out multiple internal investigations involving Natalie Bird. As such, we cannot comment further until the investigations are complete.”

Unless they’re actively investigating the discrimination Natalie Bird has suffered, and looking into those who have been attacking her, this statement comes across as deeply troubling.

Best of luck to her in her case. The recent judgment implied that more cases would be necessary to establish how the protected gender-critical views might legally be expressed. I hope that such cases will immediately put a stop to ludicrous actions such as removal of women from political parties or public spaces for wearing clothing that states that women are adult human females.

So they will be contacting witnesses and people who raised concerns about Natalie's treatment at the time then. Right?
RedToothBrush · 12/06/2021 08:16

@nauticant

it seems to me (anecdotally) that gay men are much more empathetic towards trans women than towards us boring old cervix-havers.

It's something I often notice. The problem though is that saying this exposes someone to an accusation of homophobia.

Even if you vote for gay rights and suppose the rights of others, if you voice disagreement on a personal level it wont save you in the LDs. You must submit to sharing opinions - the very antithesis of liberalism.

Why the fuck Tim Farron put up with that shit I don't know. He was treated appallingly.

He was never anything but honest and transparent. And did what he understood to be what the general consensus was despite himself.

What I find most depressing was how few people questioned what happened and how it happened to him.

FlyPassed · 12/06/2021 08:19

@OvaHere I'd love to see Andy H take on the Greens, too. He's been treated appallingly.

I wonder if Venice Allen hasna case against Labour, too? If not, I'm sure there will be someone who's had a kicking from the party who could take action

nauticant · 12/06/2021 08:22

I wonder whether the LibDem membership prefer Layla Moran to Tim Farron. Will that carry through to the voters?

The Natalie Bird legal fund is on crowdjustice. 5 days to go.

NutellaEllaElla · 12/06/2021 08:24

@CardinalLolzy

That first link is making me feel like I'm actually going mad. "It comes after a choose dominated on Thursday that saying trans women will not be actual women is a perception that “must be tolerated”, because the tax knowledgeable Maya Forstater received an employment tribunal enchantment after being sacked for “offensive” tweets. "

Does that site run text through a thesaurus or something?

Yeah I had to abandon it at that point. Unreadable.
nauticant · 12/06/2021 08:25

The Natalie Bird case was briefly covered in The Times:

archive.fo/XMNuT

Packingsoapandwater · 12/06/2021 08:57

Our local Lib Dems have a woke bro problem. I suspect it's because the relative weakness of the party, and the loss of senior statesmen from the internal mechanisms of the party, has made them vulnerable to people who, twenty years ago, would have been in the SWP.

It's one thing that's not much mentioned about Labour either: the extent to which their woes are directly connected to infiltration by individuals that are not from their traditional activist pool.

The LibDems historically did well in local government because they were local people who were perceived to be a safe pair of hands and relatively free from ideological excesses. Nick Clegg destroyed that perception when he formed a government with Cameron, and the party collapsed, leaving desperate for candidates and members. That desperation was, and still is, dangerous.

The core issue, to my mind, is one that affects all British political parties: the wrong types of people are getting involved in party politics, and because the political scene doesn't really work for ordinary people with jobs and families, those people are then being given candidacies and senior roles in parties.

And when I say "wrong types of people", I mean people with dubious, unclarified backgrounds; people with particular agendas; people who just want to be MPs for the ego of it; people who want the extra cash a local council position gives in allowances etc.

It's frightening how bad the situation is, really.

NancyDrawed · 12/06/2021 09:02

@TheHandmadeTail

the tax knowledgeable Maya Forstater received an employment tribunal enchantment

I think this is JKR’s influence.

Grin
NancyDrawed · 12/06/2021 09:03

Didn't know there was a crowdfund. Thanks for the info, I'll head over there.

borntobequiet · 12/06/2021 09:05

Good and I hope the LDs get hammered. This is a party I supported, worked for and voted for for many years. The replies I have had from National and local representatives when I raised concerns have been condescending, dismissive and borderline abusive.
Our local branch’s average age has dropped dramatically over the last few years and it’s become dramatically woke as well as politically ignorant of the actual needs of the local population.

Packingsoapandwater · 12/06/2021 09:18

@borntobequiet

Good and I hope the LDs get hammered. This is a party I supported, worked for and voted for for many years. The replies I have had from National and local representatives when I raised concerns have been condescending, dismissive and borderline abusive. Our local branch’s average age has dropped dramatically over the last few years and it’s become dramatically woke as well as politically ignorant of the actual needs of the local population.
Exactly. This is what we've seen in my area too.
FindTheTruth · 12/06/2021 09:19

I hope Karen Ingala Smith takes on Labour
kareningalasmith.com/2020/06/27/why-i-was-rejected-for-labour-party-membership-and-my-response/

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 12/06/2021 09:23

People I know to have been hardline remainers and hardline LDs are switching to the conservatives which is something I would have been gobsmacked at just a couple of years ago.

If you can't get to conference (perhaps because you've got two kids) and you can't run the executive (perhaps because you've got a job) its not working for you.

The various branches of the executive now have a number of people who hold multiple rolls so that makes the number of individuals with power within the party even smaller.

RedToothBrush · 12/06/2021 09:27

@borntobequiet

Good and I hope the LDs get hammered. This is a party I supported, worked for and voted for for many years. The replies I have had from National and local representatives when I raised concerns have been condescending, dismissive and borderline abusive. Our local branch’s average age has dropped dramatically over the last few years and it’s become dramatically woke as well as politically ignorant of the actual needs of the local population.
There are no young people taking over from the olders ones round here.

Which is a problem in itself.

Carriemac · 12/06/2021 09:27

Just given her a dig - hope she succeeds

Cwenthryth · 12/06/2021 09:51

Link to archive of the telegraph article from Twitter

<a class="break-all" href="https://archive.is/2021.06.12-005202/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/06/11/abuse-victim-sues-lib-dems-ten-year-ban-trans-women-arent-women/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">archive.is/2021.06.12-005202/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/06/11/abuse-victim-sues-lib-dems-ten-year-ban-trans-women-arent-women/

Tibtom · 12/06/2021 10:09

@TheHandmadeTail

the tax knowledgeable Maya Forstater received an employment tribunal enchantment

I think this is JKR’s influence.

😂😂😂
JuneJustRains · 12/06/2021 12:18

Ah - only just worked out that enchantment = appeal!

This is more like doing a cryptic crossword than reading a message.

MrsBertBibby · 12/06/2021 12:43

Ooooh!

MidClrgs · 12/06/2021 12:49

@OvaHere

I would like to see Andy Healey take on the Greens. He may not want to of course but that would be an interesting case!
And Emma Barton, the co-chair of GP Women for expressing GC views. The other co-Chair of this group is a transwoman. I think there is a legal case for Emma now,, I hope everyone can dig for her if she does something about it.
MidClrgs · 12/06/2021 12:50

Missed the key point here which is that Emma is currently suspended.

EsmaCannonball · 12/06/2021 13:14

That's a good point about the types of people who are getting involved in politics. Politics does seem to attract people who are anti-social and obsessive, and the current fear of being shamed as non-inclusive means that these are the types now allowed to thrive. The Lib Dems welcomed Aimee Challenor with open arms. I wonder if that will be pertinent in this case; who do they embrace and who do they cancel? Would Anne Ruzylo have a case against Labour?

EmbarrassingAdmissions · 12/06/2021 13:27

Our local branch’s average age has dropped dramatically over the last few years and it’s become dramatically woke as well as politically ignorant of the actual needs of the local population.

It's the Deptford Project all over again and the discounting of the voices and experiences of those who are adversely affected by being allegedly represented by people who are ignorant of the local population.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3203804-The-Deptford-People-Project-and-the-impact-of-self-ID-and-transactivism-on-working-class-women

Herja · 12/06/2021 13:43

I wasn't aware of this at all. On this beautiful sunny day, I've just done a bit of digging for Natalie.

NoIdontwanttoseeyourknob · 12/06/2021 14:24

@nauticant

it seems to me (anecdotally) that gay men are much more empathetic towards trans women than towards us boring old cervix-havers.

It's something I often notice. The problem though is that saying this exposes someone to an accusation of homophobia.

Do you think so? For the gay friends I’ve (tentatively) discussed this with, it comes from a well-meaning place, they remember overt discrimination and the bad days of Section 28 and they want to try and stop trans women from experiencing the same. The impact on women’s rights doesn’t cross their minds, and why should it, I suppose, as it really doesn’t affect them.