Telegraph: Police forces threatened with legal action over links to Stonewall

[FindTheTruth]

Exclusive: Police forces threatened with legal action over links to Stonewall
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/06/08/exclusive-police-forces-threatened-legal-action-links-stonewall/
(sorry I don't have a share link)
Campaigners warn that affiliation with the charity could breach police rules on political activity
By Ewan Somerville and Hayley Dixon, 8 June 2021 • 9:00pm

The topic of Police neutrality is getting a lot of attention

RECENT THREADS ON POLICE SCOTLAND:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4221733-Rape-suspects-can-choose-to-self-identify-as-female-Times-Scotland

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4263474-Police-Scotland-sexism-and-misogyny-2020-report

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4251696-Scottish-woman-told-would-be-charged-for-homophobic-and-transphobic-tweets

RECENT SPECIFIC POSTS ON POLICE LACK OF NEUTRALITY:

• www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4265916-Biological-sex-self-ID-and-rapists?msgid=108039983#108039983

• www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4263528-If-you-avoid-the-feminist-section-then-at-least-read-this-article?msgid=107978549#107978549

• www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4263478-The-Ministry-of-Justice-has-left-Stonewall?msgid=107986170#107986170

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4261822-This-might-also-be-good-news?msgid=107910618#107910618

@FindTheTruth

Lord Nick Herbert and Crispin Blunt MP don't belong anywhere near roles requiring neutrality

Totally agree.

About bloody time.

Heads need to absolutely roll in the inquiry that will have to eventually come in to how a political lobby group not only successfully managed to do this, but did it on government funding.

And why policy on impartiality and due diligence (has my trainer actually got the qualifications to speak on this? Should I let this nice political lobby group write our policy for us?) in place was not followed. Massive, massive failures all round.

Every policy written in conjunction with, every member of staff who has had training by, will have to be regarded as compromised.

Archive still working fine for me.

This is very welcome news, however it is my understanding that the role of Police Crime Commissioners needs to be thoroughly examined in terms of squandering valuable police resources on all manner of batshit things relating to promoting the Stonewall model of transgender extremism.

Victim services are funded via PCCs and many of them are compromised by potentially dangerous therapies such as EMDR (proven in the literature to produce false memories and promoted by chalatan therapist purveyors of the satanic panic and of highly dubious therapists promoting the extremes of transgender movmement).

journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/2167702618757658

We also need to look at why NICE's involvement in promoting EMDR.

I have more to write about PCCs but am now pushed for time

@Cailin66

The archive link to the Telegraph doesn't work, anyone with a better link please.

Here ya go Cailín

archive.is/U2FLK

Thanks - that link definitely works for me.

Good, there is more than enough evidence that the impartiality of the Police has been compromised.

this is quite bad news, actually. the police force have always had issues with homophobia (and speaking from a friends experience, lesbophobia). cancelling stonewall out of spite because of their transgendered views sets lgb rights back. we shouldnt be supporting this.

@DeeKavCoffee

this is quite bad news, actually. the police force have always had issues with homophobia (and speaking from a friends experience, lesbophobia). cancelling stonewall out of spite because of their transgendered views sets lgb rights back. we shouldnt be supporting this.

I can understand why you say that.

But other organisations, such as the LGB Alliance, could take their place. However, is it appropriate for any organisation to be in there?

I am also hopeful(deluded?) that the younger generations don’t suffer from homophobia to the same extent as older generations. I think it is partly because younger people have grown seeing that it has become more accepted by older generations. I would hope that is enough to prevent regressing to homophobia being widespread.

I realise that is not a complete argument and that there is sometimes a conflict between acceptance of multiculturism and gay rights.

@DeeKavCoffee

this is quite bad news, actually. the police force have always had issues with homophobia (and speaking from a friends experience, lesbophobia). cancelling stonewall out of spite because of their transgendered views sets lgb rights back. we shouldnt be supporting this.

You do realise Stonewall now deny same sex attraction?

@FindTheTruth

Lord Nick Herbert and Crispin Blunt MP don't belong anywhere near roles requiring neutrality

Agree.

Maya Forstarter legal team mention the police after todays judgement...
www.linkedin.com/pulse/forstater-judgment-what-next-peter-daly

"National police forces – some of whom have been taking the names of people who express Gender Critical thought and “checking their thinking” for signs of potential “hate crime” will now wish to consider whether any of this data is lawfully held and what their statistics actually and meaningfully represent."

"Even organisations who do not consider themselves engaged in this debate need carefully to inspect their actions and policies to determine whether they have become institutionally discriminatory towards those who dissent from Gender Theory."

@highame

This article was in the wind last week. I wondered when it would make an appearance. When the Justice system has been captured we need a public enquiry (yes a separate one) because if it can be captured by Stonewall, it could easily be captured by groups wanting to overturn democracy.

You mean like the Tory party?

@highame

This article was in the wind last week. I wondered when it would make an appearance. When the Justice system has been captured we need a public enquiry (yes a separate one) because if it can be captured by Stonewall, it could easily be captured by groups wanting to overturn democracy.

@highame I agree it needs a public enquiry. no group has the right to force another to share their beliefs or harass them for not doing so. Especially not in public bodies.

cancelling stonewall out of spite because of their transgendered views sets lgb rights back.

Highly debatable. Highly. As an L person I am deeply uncomfortable with Stonewall's attitude towards lesbians, cotton ceiling etc and their trying to reframe and redefine homosexuality while enabling politics that actually tries to convince lesbian women to overcome their same sex attraction out of political duty. Deeply uncomfortable. Stonewall in my opinion have significantly damaged lgb rights, I do not want them anywhere near any rights of mine, and I would be uncomfortable with any agency or service claiming this controversial political affiliation.

I'll be honest, I've never seen LGB Alliance do anything for gay rights other that in terms of Transgender stuff... even gc lgb people I know admit that it's not really in their remit or aim lol. Happy to be proven otherwise though!

And no: cancelling would not be out of 'spite'. It would be out of a finally realised fear of being sued for a political affiliation they never should have got into, which damages their public trust, makes impartiality impossible, and has led to the police actually working with advisors who have been stated repeatedly to be misrepresenting the law.

That's hardly 'spite' now, is it? That's kind of the grown ups waking up and going 'oh shit who let this mess happen?'

@Tibtom don't be silly, that sounds like a far right talking point tbh. Obviously the largest lgbt organisation in the UK doesn't deny same sex attraction

We can criticise SW's involvement on trans issues but as many have said they have the longest track record of protecting lesbian and gay rights (although as a bi person they haven't been as great).

Repeating idiotic conspiracy theories doesn't strengthen our position, and makes us look like the loons they want us to be

@Artichokeleaves

cancelling stonewall out of spite because of their transgendered views sets lgb rights back.

Highly debatable. Highly. As an L person I am deeply uncomfortable with Stonewall's attitude towards lesbians, cotton ceiling etc and their trying to reframe and redefine homosexuality while enabling politics that actually tries to convince lesbian women to overcome their same sex attraction out of political duty. Deeply uncomfortable. Stonewall in my opinion have significantly damaged lgb rights, I do not want them anywhere near any rights of mine, and I would be uncomfortable with any agency or service claiming this controversial political affiliation.

As a B I have never had it suggested, or seen it suggested, that SW want lesbians to get with TW with penises (except on mumsnet). Can you give us some screenshots or links?

I realise that this is a bit of an echo chamber but i think we need proper debate to sort out the wheat from the chaff when it comes to what's actually occurring. So highly debatable is good for me because at least then its being debated

@DeeKavCoffee

I'll be honest, I've never seen LGB Alliance do anything for gay rights other that in terms of Transgender stuff... even gc lgb people I know admit that it's not really in their remit or aim lol. Happy to be proven otherwise though!

Tbf to them, they've only just been registered as a charity, which will hopefully give them more clout and access to extra funding to crack on with things.

Right now they're having to deal with time wasting malicious complaints and one of the pettiest appeals ever, but I'm eager to see what they get up to when all that's over.

I realise that this is a bit of an echo chamber but i think we need proper debate to sort out the wheat from the chaff when it comes to what's actually occurring.

Well that's extremely rude, and no. I will not do the leg work for you or dig up conversations and threads that have been held over and over and over again.

Do go and look for them yourself and inform yourself of the experiences of other people that you haven't personally (yet) encountered. But thanks for telling me my experiences as an L person is worthless 'chaff'.

They may have been just declared a charity but they've been around for years to my knowledge...even their twitter is trans this and trans that. I don't think they get my automatic trust to campaign for my rights just because they say they will at some foggy time in the future..

Again I have to ask...what have the LGB alliance actually done for LGB people, other than focus on trans issues?

@DeeKavCoffee

I'll be honest, I've never seen LGB Alliance do anything for gay rights other that in terms of Transgender stuff... even gc lgb people I know admit that it's not really in their remit or aim lol. Happy to be proven otherwise though!

I'll be honest too. They've had less weeks than Stonewall have had years to do anything.

They were started by some of the same people that started Stonewall, they know what they are doing

They are not stepping outside their charitable foundation to become a political lobbying organisation.

It is a lazy and misinformed accusation to throw at them, often used by people who are not really posting in good faith - like Pink News, whole tranches if Twitter and Facebook and many monitors here.

And yes know many LGB and T people who support them and think Stonewall is shockingly adrift.

All the LOLs etc

Back to the subject of this thread ... The regulatory capture of police forces is an aspect of all totalitarian regimes.
As Highame puts it:
When the Justice system has been captured we need a public enquiry (yes a separate one) because if it can be captured by Stonewall, it could easily be captured by groups wanting to overturn democracy

September 2019... They were founded then. Made a charity this year.

And, as others have said, they have been consistent in challenging the misinformation from Stonewall et al and setting up an alternative support. First annual conference is later this year.

How much more do you think they could have done in less that 2 years, mostly in lockdown?