Guardian: Stonewall risks all it has fought for

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jun/06/stonewall-risks-all-it-has-fought-for-in-accusing-those-who-disagree-with-it-of-hate-speech

Good opinion piece by Sonia Sodha

There is a clash here with Stonewall’s campaign to abolish legal provisions for single-sex spaces, so that males who identify as women have the same rights to access them as those born female. Disagreement on what it means to be a woman – whether it is solely based on a feeling or whether it is related to sex – is one thing, although gender-critical feminists regard the reduction of womanhood to gender expression as reinforcing regressive gender norms. But it is extraordinary that Kelley believes that she is justified in likening these views to antisemitism and arguing that women’s freedom to express them should be legally curtailed.
...
It is distressing that Stonewall’s board cannot see what its actions are jeopardising. While some campaigners may balk at trying to win over those who don’t align to their world view – because they’re supposedly evil – this is a guaranteed way to halt progress and generate backlash.

[ScribblingPixie]

From what I hear from friends in the building, the attitudes of Guardian and Observer staff on this subject are quite distinct.

[HelpfulBelle]

I'm also here to say that Sonia writes for The Observer not The Guardian.

There are some openly GC columnists at The Guardian; Hadley Freeman for one. I also suspect John Crace, Marina Hyde and a few others are, too.

[FindTheTruth]

oooh Adoption UK have told Stonewall off!

Adoption UK @AdoptionUK
4 Jun @stonewalluk
your laudable drive for workplace equality has a major downside for thousands of women who didn't give birth but are mothers by adoption, many of whom are LGBTQ+. Let’s get your Workplace Equality Index right for everyone.

[PronounssheRa]

[quote nauticant]I don't use FB, which probably does me a favour, but twitter, the sewer that it is, is utterly fascinating to follow over this:

twitter.com/juliahobsbawm/status/1401502230352732166[/quote]
The other side of that particular exchange I think.

she announced I was acting in an immature way and blocked me

[teezletangler]

That's one of the best GC articles I've read recently. Clear, succinct, nails all the points. Really explains things clearly for those who may not get what it's all about. I don't know what else I've read by SS, but she sounds like an eminently sensible person and I'll be seeking out her column from now on.

[WarriorN]

Wow stonewall is top trending word at the mo in the U.K.; I think mainly due to this article today.

[Theeyeballsinthesky]

It’s deeply ironic to see cashman and LOJ all over twitter whining about stonewall being bullied

[SocialAffairsAndWoodlandFolk]

Sorry to derail slightly but this is one of the Twitter comments under the article:
It's going to be fun in 10 years when we look back at how The Guardian and The Observer cheered on a campaign of hate. You're probably the biggest reason for the amount of "acceptable" liberal transphobia in the UK. What an achievement.

I've seen this sentiment quite a few times now, claiming that the guardian is a "hotbed of transphobia" etc. Does anyone know the reasoning behind this? Because, while the TRAs haven't proved to be the most rational debaters (to make the understatement of the year), I don't see how even the most hard-line could perceive the guardian as especially transphobic, nevermind being the "biggest reason" for it.

[TheHandmadeTail]

Very revealing Twitter links there thank you.

[Theeyeballsinthesky]

It’s the normal TRA response Social

If you’re not 100% ‘TWAW/let TW play rugby against women/a Parliament that is 50% men and 50% TW is fsir & representative’ then You're a hideous transphobic TERF who literally wants to kill trans

The guardian is the most pro TRA media outlet in the UK bar the BBC but it’s still never enough. No dissenting views are allowed, not now, not ever! It’s why we are where we are

[BraveBananaBadge]

Yes there's a lot of it about, Social and it's notable how it's ramped up even in the last week. All the while people like Roz Kaveney and Joss Prior are out there peddling very silly, blatant and extremely bad faith nonsense about those standing up for women (as if no one would notice!).

The difference in the validity, transparency and honesty of the arguments of the two sides has never been so stark.

[TedImgoingmad]

@WinterTrees

I'll never trust or respect the Guardian as a news source again, however I have a lot of friends who aren't so tits-deep in the gender mire as I am and are still firmly wedded to it and believe it to be the voice of liberal, left-wing reason. For that reason I'm extremely glad to see them waking the fuck up to more responsible reporting.

Absolutely agree with this. I won't ever trust the Guardian again, but I'm glad that they have written this for the same reasons as @WinterTrees

My oh-so-woke family won't read anything else, and didn't believe me when I tried to warn them a year ago this was coming. The family row blew up during Pride month, one of them was banging on about donating money to Stonewall. They were all on the Stonewall bandwagon and firmly TWAW. One of them used to be head of children's services at a large local authority, and continues in a role developing LA policy for the vulnerable. The other 4 are doctors, (2 educated at the dreaded Edinburgh Uni). They are all old enough and clever enough to know better, and you'd think they would at least understand basic human biology, but no. Apparently, it's a grey area, and I am unkind. They did a nice job of shouting me down. They think there is no other true news source than the Guardian. I have barely spoken to any of them since this happened. It's pretty much broken my family relationships. I do hope they read this article, fully absorb the monstrous situation they helped to create, and - oh the irony - educate themselves.

I have not put any of what has happened with my family into written word before, or even spoken about it IRL. My DH understands, but works uncomfortably close to colleagues ensconced in the movement, so it's hard for me to speak about it at home, he can't deal with it. I'll send him this article, he is in a position to promote some change in his workplace.

A couple of friends with young, teenage girls are slowly beginning to understand what I have been banging on about over the last couple of years, now they are seeing it with their own eyes (ROGD is rife in a couple of local schools) and hearing the TWAW mantras from the mouths of their children. There's genuine terror from these women about how much their children seem to hate them, it's far beyond the normal teenage stroppiness one would expect. All of them are left leaning and liberal, so I hope they read the article and show it to their children, as it will be a "trusted source" for them.

I have another couple of friends who are in the civil service, who told me 6 months ago I was being mad when I mentioned that the word
"woman" was being erased, and chided me that there was nothing sinister about the pronoun stuff. Because they too only read the Guardian (and are Labour Party devotees), they didn't believe my evidence, because it is not in their news sources of choice. I hope they read the article.

I have started having a bit of a to and fro exchange with my DC school about the sources they are using for their RSE/anti bullying lessons. I have been trying to find out how they are teaching girls to reject misogyny in all its forms, including "being kind" against their best interests. So far the response has been less than satisfactory. The staff involved are more likely to believe the Guardian, I think, as a trustworthy news source, than they are me, just one more mad old bat of a female parent who won't go away.

So all in all, Katherine Viner, I will never again spend money on you and your nasty weekday rag. However, to the Observer and Sonia Sodha, thank you, this is a good start. Now please dig a bit deeper and do what the Guardian used to be good at, investigative journalism uncovering scandals of epic proportions, because this is one.

[Theeyeballsinthesky]

Ted

Im so sorry. It’s all part of the wider damage SW have inflicted

[TedImgoingmad]

Thank you, @Theeyeballsinthesky . I actually count myself lucky, I'm hoping this rotten to the core movement is broken before it can get to my own children in any way that will create long lasting damage. So many women have suffered so much more, their hearts must be breaking that the world is finally listening to them, and yet the clock cannot be turned back.

[JustcameoutGC]

Totally agree @Theeyeballsinthesky. There are multiple scandals in here. I suspect that when the public enquiry comes they will have a v hard job defining the remit.

1. The organisational capture of public bodies.
   
   
2. the selling out of lesbians and gay men by their own flagship charity
   
   
3. the incessant pushing of personal and sexual boundaries
   
   
4. the purposeful silencing of women
   
   
5. absolute refusal to address the very obvious safeguarding issues
   
   
6. the hard core advocating for children to have access to experimental drugs that have life long side effects
   
   
7. lack of questioning about the motivation of some males who align themselves with the very broad trans banner (see the gun toting incel at Brunel Uni as an example),
   
   I am sure there are more that could be added.

[merrymouse]

@PearPickingPorky

I knew this would be Sonia Sodha in the Observer. She's been excellent on this for a year or more. Takes a lot of flack for it from the USA Guardian puppet masters, Owen Jones and the like.

She's a good egg.

Yes.

Really appreciate Sonia, Hadley and Susanna.

(Who must be funded/brainwashed by the religious right according to OJ 🙄)

[LazyHorizon]

We don’t even have a wealthy “religious right” evangelical community in this country. They are clutching at desperate straws.

[NotTheFunKindOfFeminist]

I imagine it will be a bit like the Jimmy Saville scandal...

Most media outlets will claim they didn't know, or they'll throw a token person under the bus and claim there were "lessons learnt".

[WarriorN]

Stonewall is still the top news item trending on Twitter.

This seems to have been a biggie.

[WarriorN]

Bloody algorithms, it's not when I switch to a different account.

Anyway, had to do that to read the crap Edward lord is flinging Sonia's way.

She's bloody awesome!

[WarriorN]

twitter.com/edwardlord/status/1401581694696701956?s=21

[merrymouse]

Edward Lord has been bullying Sonia Sodha on twitter.

The strange thing is that as a masculine presenting but non-binary mason, he is bullying her in exactly the way that one would expect from a mason who is just, well, a man. Threatening a board position, claiming insider knowledge.

I have so much respect for Sonia.

[merrymouse]

x post!

[WarriorN]

presenting but non-binary mason, he is bullying her in exactly the way that one would expect from a mason who is just, well, a man.

Hmm funny dat!

[WarriorN]

He's getting ratioed by Sonia and twitter.

At least the ones who can still reply and see his twitter. Which seems to be a lot!