Guardian: Stonewall risks all it has fought for

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jun/06/stonewall-risks-all-it-has-fought-for-in-accusing-those-who-disagree-with-it-of-hate-speech

Good opinion piece by Sonia Sodha

There is a clash here with Stonewall’s campaign to abolish legal provisions for single-sex spaces, so that males who identify as women have the same rights to access them as those born female. Disagreement on what it means to be a woman – whether it is solely based on a feeling or whether it is related to sex – is one thing, although gender-critical feminists regard the reduction of womanhood to gender expression as reinforcing regressive gender norms. But it is extraordinary that Kelley believes that she is justified in likening these views to antisemitism and arguing that women’s freedom to express them should be legally curtailed.
...
It is distressing that Stonewall’s board cannot see what its actions are jeopardising. While some campaigners may balk at trying to win over those who don’t align to their world view – because they’re supposedly evil – this is a guaranteed way to halt progress and generate backlash.

[MrsOvertonsWindow]

Great article.
Somehow the "TWAW you bigot" brigade will have to be enabled to back away from these views in order for things to change. Articles like this in the Guardian are really important.

[SpindleWhorl]

I have a worry that a fall guy will be found in Nancy Kelley, and the of them will be shrugging their shoulders and acting all innocent.

[NotTerfNorCis]

I was so pleased to see this article. Not long ago, something like this would never have appeared in the Guardian. Things are really moving on.

[Abhannmor]

The FB comments under that article getting flooded by , mostly American, TRAs. I'm banned myself but I think Sonia could use a bit of support!

[nauticant]

She's getting a fair bit of support on twitter:

twitter.com/soniasodha/status/1401457115043139584

Although obviously there are many scolding blokes telling her off.

[NotBadConsidering]

@Abhannmor

The FB comments under that article getting flooded by , mostly American, TRAs. I'm banned myself but I think Sonia could use a bit of support!

I have just had a look, there are far too many to bother with, it would just rile me up, but the number of comments proving her point is astounding. No sense of irony.

[NotTerfNorCis]

Have you got a link to the article on Facebook?

[SpindleWhorl]

The US extremists are very illuminating.

[RoyalCorgi]

Sonia's been consistently good on this topic. It's great to see her take such a bold stance - this is a really eloquent, powerful piece.

As for the Guardian, it's now in an interesting position. It has a substantial US audience, which it increasingly panders to. But it's clear that in the UK, there are large numbers of people - including those on the left - extremely uneasy about the tactics of the TRAs. Witness all the comments under any Times article on this subject, for example. So the Guardian is going to have to think hard about which audience it wants to retain.

[LegoCaltrops]

Too little too late for me. I used to buy the Guardian but never again. They abandoned women & when challenged, they removed open comments on most of their articles. Now they see the tide is turning & they're the ones being abandoned.

We see you, Guardian.

[Shedbuilder]

Can I just remind people that the Observer is a separate publication, with separate offices and separate staff. It's not the Guardian and just because the Observer has published this doesn't mean anything's changed at the Guardian.

[EmbarrassingAdmissions]

Suzanne Moore:

There is no one I would rather be with in the gulag than Sonia Sodha so don't worry. The GC women at The Guardian and The Observer are the coolest people. Hello Hadley, Catherine, Susanna.

twitter.com/suzanne_moore/status/1401497172835803136

[LazyHorizon]

@Shedbuilder

Can I just remind people that the Observer is a separate publication, with separate offices and separate staff. It's not the Guardian and just because the Observer has published this doesn't mean anything's changed at the Guardian.

Yes, wasn’t it the Observer who published the interview with the Tavistock whistleblower recently? That would never have been commissioned by the Guardian.

[IvyTwines2]

@RoyalCorgi

Sonia's been consistently good on this topic. It's great to see her take such a bold stance - this is a really eloquent, powerful piece.

As for the Guardian, it's now in an interesting position. It has a substantial US audience, which it increasingly panders to. But it's clear that in the UK, there are large numbers of people - including those on the left - extremely uneasy about the tactics of the TRAs. Witness all the comments under any Times article on this subject, for example. So the Guardian is going to have to think hard about which audience it wants to retain.

And the younger UK and US online readers don't pay to read it. The Times is winning over the sort of adult Left-leaning reader who used to be a Guardian paid subscriber or meat-world newspaper buyer.

I think the recent elections were a huge wake-up call too. They couldn't attribute that loss to Corbyn or Leave voters, and they must now be aware of the number of women who could no longer bring themselves to vote Labour. We're looking at Labour being out of power for a generation, and The Guardian's pursuit of the Owen Jones/Young Ones' Rick/American campus line of bullying, studenty politics has played a role in that.

[MoiraQueen]

Good article, but the comments are appalling

[Mollyollydolly]

I responded on Facebook. RIP my mentions. America really is another country.

[nauticant]

A geniune LOL at Suzanna Moore's response to the correcting male:

twitter.com/suzanne_moore/status/1401501755511300098

[nauticant]

Typo: Suzanne.

[BraveBananaBadge]

Sonia Sodha is very good on this issue.

Needless to say FB is apoplectic over the and the Stonewall piece they printed yesterday, with the vast majority of commenters spitting about how bigoted and transphobic the Guardian is and always has been AnD dURInG PriDE monTH ToO. What planet are these people on?

[nauticant]

I don't use FB, which probably does me a favour, but twitter, the sewer that it is, is utterly fascinating to follow over this:

twitter.com/juliahobsbawm/status/1401502230352732166

[Mollyollydolly]

Facebook is more insane than twitter and that says a lot. It's why I don't usually engage on Facebook. It's a mad, mad world.

[toffeebutterpopcorn]

I cant believe the Guardian have written this. I await to hear from my sister who makes fun of me for caring about such things (none so blind as those who will not nee...)

[Floisme]

Thanks for the link, and thank you Sonia Sodha.

I think this growing daylight between The Observer and The Guardian is really interesting and quite heartening. It suggests to me that this isn't so much about the Guardian group being led by their US partners - which is what I used to think. It seems to be more about an editorial decision that leads to Katharine Viner's door.

[FindTheTruth]

I'd love to be a fly on the wall when/if the Observer editorial team meet the Guardian editorial team

[Bollockstothat]

It seems to be more about an editorial decision that leads to Katharine Viner's door.

Kath was always the most desperately try-hard cool girl at university; she doesn't seem to have changed.