I feel disheartened and isolated in my views

[hazandduck]

I have had an awful experience tonight because of my views on gender ideology. I don’t feel like the tide is turning, not in my social circle any way 😩 I have put a couple of gender critical posts on my (private) social media but had little to no response to them really (apart from a couple of lovely women I met through MN funnily enough)!

Tonight I saw someone who I’ve met once before. She had been drinking with my friends all afternoon (she is a friend of a friend). My friends know I’m GC but I don’t really talk about it because I know a few of them are on the fence or think TWAW and they are my best mates, I don’t want to get in to debates with them etc.

Any way, this woman who I barely know lives with one of my friends. I feel (as do my friends that had been with her all day) that she had scoped out my social media through our mutual friend’s account maybe?

As soon as I walked in she said she remembered my beautiful children (her words - she’s met them once as I said that one time I met her) and then out of the blue she said “let me ask you. If they said to you in 10 years, I’m in the wrong body I want to change sex, what would you say?”

I said well I doubt they would ask that because I am raising them to know you can’t change your sex and gender is sexist stereotypes. But if they did ask me I would get them all the therapy and support they need to understand they cannot change sex and accept who they are.

She went crazy. Like a switch flipped. She didn’t want to hear my opinion she wanted a fight. I said “look let’s just leave it everyone’s having a nice time let’s talk about something else.” One of my other friends who was drunk took it to mean that if one of my kids was gay I would get them therapy!! I said no! That is NOT the same. People just don’t get it. I feel so alone in this. I was shaking.

But then it got worse and the random woman and my friend who lives with her started arguing, friend said “look just chill out.” Random started screaming at her she was allowed her opinion and she should fuck off and stop embarrassing her. Called her a c*nt. Told her to fuck off and said she was telling ‘her’ (pointed at me) her opinion that she was entitled to.

It escalated in to actual violence between them and they ended up punching and screaming on the floor! I was just so mortified. I’ve never had a fight or anything like this before. But I was actually scared.

We are women in our late twenties and early thirties. I feel so upset by the whole evening, like I ruined it by opening my mouth. But then why should I not answer a simple question without facing fear of violence? I know honestly nothing about this woman I have no idea why she had it in for me tonight. I am a fairly quiet, tee-total, happily married mum of a 1 and 3 year old. My life is boring and I would consider myself totally harmless.

I came home in tears tonight because I felt like I was being shamed for having this opinion and almost like the implication was that I am a bad mother. Am I?? I feel so alone in my views. DH gets it. But none of my friends seem to. It makes me really seriously doubt myself and that I am choosing the right path for my children...will they grow up and resent me? Think me a bigoted dinosaur?

Sorry I don’t know why I’m posting I’m just here awake my hands still slightly trembling even though this all happened hours ago.

Drunk batshit woman. Sounds like she was spoiling for an argument. Alcohol has played a big part in this escalating.
Pity your poor friend, their house share is going to feel very strained now.
This is such a difficult subject to have calm and reasonable discussions about. Feelings run very high.
Sorry you feel so upset.

Bloody hell, what a bizarre experience. Sorry you had that happen to you on a night out.

None of it was your fault. This other woman sounds totally overwrought and like she was itching for an argument. For it to end in her and your friend having a physical fight is just bonkers.

Please don't doubt yourself or think you're a bad mother simply because a random women with some serious issues kicked off on your night out. It's all about her and nothing to do with you.

Horrible experience, OP, I’m not surprised you’re upset. But it’s great that your friend had the courage to speak up. The other woman was, as Beamur says, a batshit drunk. What an idiot, achieving nothing but showinh herself up as a fool. I hope your friend wasn’t hurt in the brawl.

And you sound like the perfect mum, supporting your children and not encouraging them to believe the latest fad.

That sounds completely insane and really isn’t your fault at all.

People who have fist fights in a bar have bigger issues going on than a difference in opinion over gender.

It was really rude for her to ask you the question in the first place. You don’t question other people’s child rearing choices on a night out.

I get it. So do the vast majority of women who have stopped to consider it (or have ‘educated’ themselves, as we are often instructed). You are not alone.

It sounds to me like she was looking for a fight. Alcohol may have been a factor. She sounds batshit.I would make a point of avoiding her in the future. I really hope you didn’t get caught up in it when she came to blows with her flatmate.

In your shoes, I’d call your friend (not her batshit flatmate) and check that she is ok this morning.

Under no circumstances should you feel ashamed of your beliefs.

I don't necessarily agree with you. I don't necessarily disagree either. My opinion is mine, and not my reason for posting.

It seems clear that this person was looking for a fight, why else would she ask such a personal question in such a place?

You seem to have handled it just fine, you didn't engage and you didn't roll around fighting in public. No reason to feel ashamed as far as I can see.

As to what your children may or may not think of you in the future. Who knows?

Just try not to let your gender critical views inform your children's upbringing. I say that from a position that children should be allowed to develop and grow with as few pre conceptions as possible.

Very few people actually give a shit about gender stuff. You know you’re not alone.

Please be assured, @hazandduck, that having a normal feminist viewpoint on "gender" is a very reasonable and sensible way to bring up your children. It's not a "pre conception", it's a rational and well though out point of view, and one that absolutely should inform your parenting to the benefit of your children.

‘Just try not to let your gender critical views inform your children's upbringing. I say that from a position that children should be allowed to develop and grow with as few pre conceptions as possible.’

That is ludicrous! The whole of child development is based on learning preconceptions.

I don’t think you did anything wrong, you were asked a question and answered it. This woman was wanting an argument and eventually got one from your friend.

As far as your social media post go, if you believe what you are posting, you don’t need likes and comments from your friends.
I don’t engage with these types of things if my friends post them because I don’t need converting, I believe what I believe, and would hate for a wedge to be driven.

Thanks for all the replies.

We were in my friend’s garden, I was the last person to get there. I was the only sober one, I always am.

My friend who had the fight didn’t go back to their shared house, I drove her home to her mum’s house. I said I think she should try and find somewhere else to live as she’s clearly living with someone really violent and aggressive and I am actually really worried about her!

It was just so out of the blue. The question felt so pointed at me when I had done nothing but walk in and sit down and say hi to everyone.

I feel guilty for effectively ruining the evening by opening my mouth! It’s my first night out in so long and I was really nervous about going. Really wish I hadn’t bothered.

It was so stupid because she actually said it annoyed her when transwomen moaned about periods (I don’t know if this is utter rubbish she was speaking?) when they will never know how it feels to have periods or be an actual woman. I said ok so in what way are they women to you then? And she said “because they want to be!”

Typical tra behaviour aggressive and violent. Random was after a fight which speaks volumes on her personality. You answered her and requested the conversion change as she was loosing her mind over it. Tras are in absolute panic and lashing out now that their lies and control are falling down all around them. It's no longer good enough to repeat the mantra, people see straight through it. They lose at discussion because their technique has always been to shut it down. I dont know how your friend will feel when sober but its right she defended you from the aggressive random. Them physically fighting is crazy but don't let them put the blame on you, they both made their own choices tonight.

No wonder you are shaking. What happened is not in any way your thought. Whatever is going on with this random woman made her want a fight and she picked on you. And your genuine reply made her go over the top.

Added to which actual violence.

Not what you would have anticipated when setting out earlier in the evening.

I hope you can find a way to unwind and get a good nights sleep. I am sure your actual friends will have been as shocked as you.

And what happened tonight has nothing to do with you being a bad mother.

This was about random woman having some sort of melt down (who knows why) and she thought she would take it out on you as an easy target.

And I hope your actual friend is okay as well.

But maybe worth reflecting that drinking all afternoon and into the evening could have negative consequences.

Maybe a and a bit of and some soothing music?

You surely must realise that you didn't ruin the evening by answering her question! I suspect that whatever you did, she would have become aggressive and argumentative. If not with you then with someone else.

Even though it was awful that it turned to violence and you were scared... do you not think in time it will turn into an amusing anecdote.

Especially when people stop believing in genderism.

Hope you're feeling calmer now. Obviously, you did nothing wrong and her reaction was excessive. Presumably she has a trans family member (or is in fact a TW?) but punching people who disagree with her on this or any topic is no way to put her point of view forward successfully.

Please DO try to let your GC views educate your children into knowing the truth.

As for this group of friends, you need to practice a way of deflecting challenges like this one: "I know some people don't agree with my views, so let's just have a good time and not discuss it right now."

Also I suspect if you had initially said I don’t want to discuss at this time, she would have kept on and on and the result would have been the same.

If you weren’t there she would have likely started a fight about something else

Sorry didn't see your follow up post so mine is a bit out of sequence.

But your later replies only confirms that you behaved really well. Despite all of this, taking care of your friend.

Give yourself a pat on the back.

The fight would probably have kick off about anything. Dont let it get you down that it happend to be about the trans issue.

Shame your first evening out for a while was spoilt but there will be others.

I hope it does Liberty!

Thanks so much for your kind words and reassurances.

I am in bed with a cat on my lap, cup of tea and have smashed half a packet of Fox’s biscuits oops. Stress eating 🙈 Watching American Dad and my hands are less trembly!

I do feel guilty although I know it wasn’t my fault, it was my bestie’s birthday and everyone said it was like a switch when I got there something triggered this woman off. I have been working all day and so wanted just a nice laugh with my mates. It’s left me feeling depressed more than anything and like it was a waste of a ‘night off.’

Maybe it was that all day drinking had tipped her over and it would have happened whether I was there or not.

@stumbledin

No wonder you are shaking. What happened is not in any way your thought. Whatever is going on with this random woman made her want a fight and she picked on you. And your genuine reply made her go over the top.

Added to which actual violence.

Not what you would have anticipated when setting out earlier in the evening.

I hope you can find a way to unwind and get a good nights sleep. I am sure your actual friends will have been as shocked as you.

And what happened tonight has nothing to do with you being a bad mother.

This was about random woman having some sort of melt down (who knows why) and she thought she would take it out on you as an easy target.

And I hope your actual friend is okay as well.

But maybe worth reflecting that drinking all afternoon and into the evening could have negative consequences.

Maybe a and a bit of and some soothing music?

OP doesn't drink so she doesn't need to reflect on that...

I hope you got some sleep and feel a bit better this morning, OP. This woman’s completely OTT response was not your fault. If someone can’t express their views without resorting to aggression and violence, then they are the problem. She’s clearly been spoiling for a fight with you and took this opportunity to kick off.

I hope your friend is OK, this woman sounds dangerously volatile.

And I’m sure your kids are doing just fine, raising them to challenge stereotypes and be aware of groupthink is good parenting in my book.

Take heart OP. Your friend stepped in. You have a real friend, a lovely family and DH who gets it. And you have a cat on your lap - cats know when you need them. You understand what's going on and that makes you the best mother that your children could have. And you've helped your friend, as upsetting as this was, your friend is empowered by saying she won't live with the batshit woman anymore and that's huge - it's soul destroying to live in an environment with someone like that. All in all life's good and some good has come out of this. You're strong and brilliant. Every time you find your mind replaying what happened, shift to how much better your friends life is going to be and how grateful you are that you're armed with the knowledge to protect your children.

What a vile woman!! Hope you don't have to see her again. Take it she doesn't have children so she can't take your point of view on board in the same way as those with children would (I agree with you btw)

I get very heated around these discussions but I would never be violent and there are some people I avoid talking to about it, such as my kid sister who believes TWAW

"
Just try not to let your gender critical views inform your children's upbringing. I say that from a position that children should be allowed to develop and grow with as few pre conceptions as possible."
Whereas the view that a little boy who has long hair and plays with dolls must actually be a girl is so open minded!
Or when older, to do "woman" you cake your face in make up and wear the highest heels you can find.

I actually think the whole episode will have worked in your favour. You weren't the one screaming, swearing and throwing punches. And rest assured, most people are getting sick and tired of every discussion (whether it's about gender, covid, Brexit etc) descending into slanging matches because some people seem to think Twitter tactics can be used in real life, so I wouldn't be surprised if everyone else at that party is disgusted with that woman's behaviour too.