I feel disheartened and isolated in my views

[hazandduck]

I have had an awful experience tonight because of my views on gender ideology. I don’t feel like the tide is turning, not in my social circle any way 😩 I have put a couple of gender critical posts on my (private) social media but had little to no response to them really (apart from a couple of lovely women I met through MN funnily enough)!

Tonight I saw someone who I’ve met once before. She had been drinking with my friends all afternoon (she is a friend of a friend). My friends know I’m GC but I don’t really talk about it because I know a few of them are on the fence or think TWAW and they are my best mates, I don’t want to get in to debates with them etc.

Any way, this woman who I barely know lives with one of my friends. I feel (as do my friends that had been with her all day) that she had scoped out my social media through our mutual friend’s account maybe?

As soon as I walked in she said she remembered my beautiful children (her words - she’s met them once as I said that one time I met her) and then out of the blue she said “let me ask you. If they said to you in 10 years, I’m in the wrong body I want to change sex, what would you say?”

I said well I doubt they would ask that because I am raising them to know you can’t change your sex and gender is sexist stereotypes. But if they did ask me I would get them all the therapy and support they need to understand they cannot change sex and accept who they are.

She went crazy. Like a switch flipped. She didn’t want to hear my opinion she wanted a fight. I said “look let’s just leave it everyone’s having a nice time let’s talk about something else.” One of my other friends who was drunk took it to mean that if one of my kids was gay I would get them therapy!! I said no! That is NOT the same. People just don’t get it. I feel so alone in this. I was shaking.

But then it got worse and the random woman and my friend who lives with her started arguing, friend said “look just chill out.” Random started screaming at her she was allowed her opinion and she should fuck off and stop embarrassing her. Called her a c*nt. Told her to fuck off and said she was telling ‘her’ (pointed at me) her opinion that she was entitled to.

It escalated in to actual violence between them and they ended up punching and screaming on the floor! I was just so mortified. I’ve never had a fight or anything like this before. But I was actually scared.

We are women in our late twenties and early thirties. I feel so upset by the whole evening, like I ruined it by opening my mouth. But then why should I not answer a simple question without facing fear of violence? I know honestly nothing about this woman I have no idea why she had it in for me tonight. I am a fairly quiet, tee-total, happily married mum of a 1 and 3 year old. My life is boring and I would consider myself totally harmless.

I came home in tears tonight because I felt like I was being shamed for having this opinion and almost like the implication was that I am a bad mother. Am I?? I feel so alone in my views. DH gets it. But none of my friends seem to. It makes me really seriously doubt myself and that I am choosing the right path for my children...will they grow up and resent me? Think me a bigoted dinosaur?

Sorry I don’t know why I’m posting I’m just here awake my hands still slightly trembling even though this all happened hours ago.

It's not you it's them.

I am guessing the abusive woman doesn't have kids herself.

If she had, she would have a better idea of how female bodies differ from male ones and why they are not just interchangeable. And she would understand why any decent parent would do anything to protect their child, and discourage them from taking drugs or having surgery with dangerous and still largely unknown medical consequences.

I hope you're feeling okay this morning after that horrible experience

None of it was your fault. It sounds as though she was spoiling for a fight and had it not been you in the firing line, she'd likely have picked on someone else.

I hope that your future social events do not bring you into contact with this woman.

Hope you are ok OP. It was her that ruined the evening not you. You were answering a question honestly and truthfully.

It was just so out of the blue. The question felt so pointed at me when I had done nothing but walk in and sit down and say hi to everyone.

I wouldn't be surprised if she targeted you because she has seen your posts online and got an idea of you being against self ID.

If not then maybe she would have gone for anyone who was sober as she was spoiling for a fight.

Either way, she has made a fool of herself and shown her true colours to her friends and your poor friend is likely to want to move out and have nothing more to do with her.

She's a dick. Try not to spend too much time thinking about her. She owes you and everyone else an apology.

Just try not to let your gender critical views inform your children's upbringing. I say that from a position that children should be allowed to develop and grow with as few pre conceptions as possible.

My GC views have absolutely informed my children's upbringing. Sad it had to be like that. But I had to get ahead of the adults they would meet in their lives, who would tell them it's ok to stunt their development and growth by the use of puberty blockers and cross sex hormones. Absolutely not going to happen on my watch.

And I'm sorry that happened op. That woman is clearly an absolute arse. Anyone who gets drunk and picks fights with people is not someone I would want to know or have anything to do with.

I hope you are feeling better this morning, OP.

If the woman had to resort to screaming, calling people "cunts", mispresenting your views and rolling around on the ground fighting in order to express her "opinion", it's not really an opinion that would seem to rest on its merits, is it? I imagine that most people who witnessed this would recognise that.

But maybe worth reflecting that drinking all afternoon and into the evening could have negative consequences

Maybe worth reading an OP properly before making a super-patronising response?

My guess would be that she has been using her allyship, woke credentials and vocal support of an ideology to get pat's and praise and social power, and that she feels that slipping away.

If you are more openly gender critical than others in her circle, she is focusing on you as part of the cause of that. She has spun herself as the righteous in her own head, it is ego dystonic to have to reframe yourself and admit maybe you were wrong and people resist it.

She is a bully, a mean girl for the modern age. She made a fool of herself not you.

How are you today OP, I bet she's feeling a bit of a tit right now.

Alcohol and sunshine can be a bad combination and some people are just bad drunks, sounds like she's one of them.

Personally I think the subject of the argument is neither here or there, she was getting lairy, wanted a fight and got one. Now you know how she is you can know to avoid her. I'm sorry it ruined your day out though.

OP, I hope you’re fine today. Your attacker is probably too hungover to realise how many converts she has made to the feminist cause!

She doesn't sound well - and that, paradoxically, I see as a good sign. I've met many people like her. They're the ones who, if they happen to be into politics (say) go sweeping straight out of the Overton Window and into the fringes where dwell the people who say that property is theft and that if you aren't a vegan you deserve to be made into sausages. They're always highly unstable. Hell, I've dwelt in that realm myself.
I think the extreme form of genderism - the one we're being hit with now - was always in the lunatic fringe, but for some reason it caught on in the mainstream. Now that it's become a debating topic it's perhaps only the lunatics that are prepared to defend it in public.
Sounds like a really horrible experience, mind you. Well done for holding it together.

@hazandduck I hope your day has gone well. Like many here I agree that this person, who doesn't know you (or barely knows you), was after a fight. I wonder if part of your subsequent feelings were linked to having an expectation of a pleasant afternoon being so brutally destroyed by this awful event? You behaved with honesty and dignity and looked after your friend. I hope you managed some sleep and are feeling more resilient today

Hello - before making ill informed comments about someone else's posts please read them properly.

My comments about drinking all afternoon were trying to find some sort of explanation for the madness of random woman's behaviour.

So you just look stupid for trying to tell me off.

In both my comments I was praising OP for her considered and thoughtful behaviour.

And none of it was anything to do with having gender critical views.

So I hope OP has had a good night's sleep and is enjoying a relaxing sunday.

And just to say again, because of the insidious attempt to make it sound like I was blaming you. Of course I wasn't.

But to everyone beware of people, even if you think they are friends, who have been drinking all afternoon and into the evening. They aren't good company.

that if you aren't a vegan you deserve to be made into sausages

Sorry this has really me laugh!

It sounds like she’d checked your social media for wrongthink and planned to “call you out” in front of others. I love how these people think they are leading the resistance when actually the Stasi would have loved them.

She's a butter op. Her behaviour was hers alone. It's the kind of reaction I'd expect from a very, very immature teen, not an adult.

Speaking on behalf of the vegans, we have no interest in sausages of the human or pig variety, but a shroomdog is always welcome.

Nutter not butter.

Bloody hell, OP.

There are some very unbalanced people in the world. Sorry you've bumped into one of them. Hope you feel better soon.

Just try not to let your gender critical views inform your children's upbringing.

Bollocks to this. I raise my children to question sexism, unfairness and bullshit. I raise them to be confident, thoughtful and compassionate. My 'gc' views are perfectly congruent with those morals. Unless you're suggesting you're going to actually attempt to raise children with no moral compass or guidance at all, in which case - oy vay.

@Erikrie

Just try not to let your gender critical views inform your children's upbringing. I say that from a position that children should be allowed to develop and grow with as few pre conceptions as possible.

My GC views have absolutely informed my children's upbringing. Sad it had to be like that. But I had to get ahead of the adults they would meet in their lives, who would tell them it's ok to stunt their development and growth by the use of puberty blockers and cross sex hormones. Absolutely not going to happen on my watch.

👏👏👏

Same here.

Hope you've had a good day today OP.

Just add to the chorus - you did nothing wrong.

You've every right to hold the views you do - as does she in return but she's got no right to respond with bullying and violence.

You might actually find yourself surprised by how your friends react.

She's certainly not done her cause any favours.

Like other I suspect she knew about your GC views and had been spoiling for a fight all day whilst getting increasingly drunk.

What I would have been upset about is her question. Whilst "hypothetical" who the hell thinks it's acceptable to ask that about your children. Gender dysphoria is a very serious condition that can have serious long term mental and potentially physical impacts. No one would ever ask "what would you do in 10 years if your child became anorexic/had cancer/heart failure" etc.

I love how these people think they are leading the resistance when actually the Stasi would have loved them.

So true. OP, hope you had a better day today. What a rude, horrible woman. She should apologise to you and your friend, and to everyone else as well for ruining your night together. But I bet she won’t.

Hope your friend finds somewhere else to live too. Sounds like a housemate from hell.

You aren't isolated here that's for sure.

That's absolutely awful. I feel she targeted you and that is frightening-but I think it's your friend who is most at risk because it's her roommate-I hope she can move out soon!

That woman is a very messed up person and you did nothing wrong.

I’m so sorry you had such a difficult experience, but I cannot begin to tell you how frustrating and insulting it is for those of us with children who identify as trans to hear that it wouldn’t happen if they were brought up in a home that supported the fundamental nature of biological sex and did not support gender stereotyping. Please have a look at groups like the Bayswater support group where you will find many parent who have brought their children up with similar ideologies to you who have been blindsided by a child suddenly declaring they are trans.