Guardian article: Disaster patriarchy: how the pandemic has unleashed a war on women

[RoyalCorgi]

This article is by V, who used to be known as Eve Ensler (author of The Vaginal Monologues).

It's an excellent article, outlining the impact of things like domestic violence, sexual abuse and female genital mutilation and loss of schooling. Yet she writes: "In this devastating time of Covid we have seen an explosion of violence towards women, whether they are cisgender or gender-diverse."

It seems such a stark illustration of cognitive dissonance, when all the examples she then gives are so clearly of women and girls who have been abused and discriminated against precisely because they are biologically female.

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2021/jun/01/disaster-patriarchy-how-the-pandemic-has-unleashed-a-war-on-women

You need to read links, Pat.

This is your one. "Data from the Office for National Statistics (ONS) shows more than one in four trans people (28%) experienced crime in the year ending March 2020, compared with 14% of people whose gender identity is the same as the sex they were registered at birth."

People. That means it included men, and it does not specify what the crime was.

This is my one, which was women specifically.

96% of respondents did not report incidents, with 45% saying it would not change anything. Among those who said the event was not serious enough to report were women who had been groped, followed and coerced into sexual activity, said UN Women UK

I'll repeat that again.

More than four-fifths of young women in the UK have been subjected to sexual harassment, according to a survey for UNWomenUK, which warns that most women have lost faith that the abuse will be dealt with.

Among women aged 18-24, 86% said they had been sexually harassed in public spaces, while just 3% did not recall ever having experienced sexually harassing behaviour. The remaining 11% chose not to answer the question.

According to the survey, published in areport by the all-party parliamentary group (APPG) for UN Women, 71% of women of any age said they had experienced sexual harassment in public spaces.

“This is a human rights crisis. It’s just not enough for us to keep saying ‘this is too difficult a problem for us to solve’ – it needs addressing now,” said Claire Barnett, executive director of UN Women UK.

“We are looking at a situation where younger women are constantly modifying their behaviour in an attempt to avoid being objectified or attacked, and older women are reporting serious concerns about personal safety if they ever leave the house in the dark – even during the daytime in winter.”

@PurgatoryOfPotholes

You need to read links, Pat.

This is your one. "Data from the Office for National Statistics (ONS) shows more than one in four trans people (28%) experienced crime in the year ending March 2020, compared with 14% of people whose gender identity is the same as the sex they were registered at birth."

People. That means it included men, and it does not specify what the crime was.

This is my one, which was women specifically.

96% of respondents did not report incidents, with 45% saying it would not change anything. Among those who said the event was not serious enough to report were women who had been groped, followed and coerced into sexual activity, said UN Women UK

You are still missing the overall point. Trans women are not taking our struggles as women away from us. They are seeking their own equality alongside us. To be hostile to that is just hateful

What is your argument here? That you don't believe women subjected to sexual aggression?

Your stats are "Data from the Office for National Statistics (ONS) shows more than one in four trans people (28%) experienced crime in the year ending March 2020".

So you are explicitly saying you don't believe women. Do you really think that's okay?

You are still missing the overall point. Trans women are not taking our struggles as women away from us. They are seeking their own equality alongside us. To be hostile to that is just hateful

But that is what you just explicitly did.

I told you that "more than four-fifths of young women in the UK have been subjected to sexual harassment" and you said they hadn't, so you could make the rate for trans people look more imposing.

You took away from women's struggles for transwomen. You denied that women were being sexually harassed. For transwomen.

Sport, Pat. Sport.

If you only take a single minute to honestly engage with posters here google Laurel Hubbard and then come back and explain what it is that female weightlifters have not lost.

Because if you step off that ideological expounding plank and look at current real life examples you will see just how much is being removed from women by the promotion of the idea that transwomen are women.

In what way could a trans woman, someone who has rejected their masculinity and instead taken on the social roles and presentation of a woman, represent the patriarchy?

thanks for asking.

Are you very comfortable that a male who has recently transitioned can represent the population of females at a university or in a political party to ensure that female needs are given the degree of consideration they need when those organisations are setting policy?

Are you comfortable that in these instances females will always be the priority for that person who has taken the 'women's officer' role? Such as recently in the Greens party when the women's officer implies just how amazing it is to be on estrogen supplements because they can cry now. Or like a very well known labour campaigner who told lesbians they were not allowed to centre lesbian reproductive issues in a march. Or will a male transitioner who is following Stonewall very closely make sure that lesbians are not abused in any way for rejecting a potential partner with a penis or for stating they are not now or ever interested in a penis.

How do you think a male who has taken a women's officer role will ensure that female needs are prioritised above any males?

Please tell us exactly how many transwomen have been murdered in the past year in the UK?

You are still missing the overall point. Trans women are not taking our struggles as women away from us. They are seeking their own equality alongside us. To be hostile to that is just hateful

Actually, Baroness Falkner disagrees with you. A good thing too as she is chairing the EHRC. She has gone on record to state that women discussing the conflicts on their rights are NOT to be abused or stigmatised in any way.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/women-must-be-heard-on-transgender-identity-says-new-equalities-chief-kqttljxmd

@PurgatoryOfPotholes

What is your argument here? That you don't believe women subjected to sexual aggression?

Your stats are "Data from the Office for National Statistics (ONS) shows more than one in four trans people (28%) experienced crime in the year ending March 2020".

So you are explicitly saying you don't believe women. Do you really think that's okay?

Obviously that is not the case. You are just making bad faith arguments at this point.

[quote Helleofabore]You are still missing the overall point. Trans women are not taking our struggles as women away from us. They are seeking their own equality alongside us. To be hostile to that is just hateful

Actually, Baroness Falkner disagrees with you. A good thing too as she is chairing the EHRC. She has gone on record to state that women discussing the conflicts on their rights are NOT to be abused or stigmatised in any way.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/women-must-be-heard-on-transgender-identity-says-new-equalities-chief-kqttljxmd[/quote]
I'm not abusing or stigmatising anyone based on the discussion of rights. Are you really saying that being hostile to those seeking their own equality isnt hateful?

I still dont see how trans women can be anything other than a feminist ally. Most of the arguments have boiled down to 'they arent the same as us'. And they arent, they;re struggles are different. They are seeking acceptance to get to the same level of acceptance we hold as cis women, and the fact there is a corner of feminism that seeks to standan inch higher by keeping one foot on their necks is frankly disgusting.

Do you accept that 86% of women aged between 18-24 have been sexually harassed in public spaces?

Do you accept that 71% of women of any age had experienced sexual harassment in public spaces?

They are seeking acceptance to get to the same level of acceptance we hold as cis women

Acceptance of/as what? By whom?

Do you really think this is some secret plot to overthrow womens rights with men?

Do you really think that there is zero conflict between the rights for males who transition and females?

When there is a push to convince women that they should be very happy to have gender balanced boards with 50% males who identify as men and 50% males who identify as women. Or even that it is quite acceptable to for any board to report that they have good female representation on their boards because they have males who identify as women on the board but no females.

Are you saying that those males who identify as women have never had the benefits of being male, the default sex in so many instances? Or are you saying that because they have had some kind of struggle that their struggles are equal to the struggle of a female's so, that is ok.

Bad faith arguments? Since when has ONS data been a bad faith argument?

Nice to see I was ignored though 😁

As I'm not a "cis" woman, I wouldn't know. I'm a Woman, no need for the cis

@PurgatoryOfPotholes

Do you accept that 86% of women aged between 18-24 have been sexually harassed in public spaces?

Do you accept that 71% of women of any age had experienced sexual harassment in public spaces?

I've not looked at the data for any of those things, but I can absolutely believe it. But for the last time, because I'm pretty sure you are just an outspoken transphobe at this point and so we can save both of us a lot of time by ending the discussion here, our struggles do not invalidate those of trans women, nor vice versa. There are areas of overlapping struggle that make them an ally not an oppressor. To claim trans women as an oppressor is to deny their struggles and our privileged position by comparison.

OMG! Did you really use the 'foot on neck' analogy?

Unbelievable!

I still dont see how trans women can be anything other than a feminist ally.

Please tell us in detail how this works in your mind. And please give us examples of prominent transwomen who are feminist allies in your mind.

So a quarter of transpeople experienced crime. Versus 80% of women, the vast majority of whom thought it not worth reporting because they felt iy wouldn't be taken serious. So it is clear there is a long way to go before women gain equality with transpeople.

I've not looked at the data for any of those things, but I can absolutely believe it. But for the last time, because I'm pretty sure you are just an outspoken transphobe at this point and so we can save both of us a lot of time by ending the discussion here, our struggles do not invalidate those of trans women, nor vice versa. There are areas of overlapping struggle that make them an ally not an oppressor. To claim trans women as an oppressor is to deny their struggles and our privileged position by comparison.

Goody gumdrops.

So do you retract your claim that transwomen are subjected to twice the rate of sexual assault that women are?

I'm not abusing or stigmatising anyone based on the discussion of rights. Are you really saying that being hostile to those seeking their own equality isnt hateful?

I see. Telling women discussing the conflicting areas of rights that they are 'standing on necks' is not stigmatising those women?

And that even us discussing these conflicts is 'hateful' in your eyes, but that is not stigmatising us? Please explain how that works .

@Tibtom

So a quarter of transpeople experienced crime. Versus 80% of women, the vast majority of whom thought it not worth reporting because they felt iy wouldn't be taken serious. So it is clear there is a long way to go before women gain equality with transpeople.

I find it very hateful that there is such hostility to women seeking our own equality.

Do you really think this is some secret plot to overthrow womens rights with men?

Here you go - the 'plot' was laid out in some detail by Dentons
www.google.com/amp/s/www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-document-that-reveals-the-remarkable-tactics-of-trans-lobbyists/amp

They are seeking acceptance to get to the same level of acceptance we hold as cis women

You may be a cis woman. Many women on FWR find the term offensive since it imposes a gender identity on us without our consent. We are simply women because we’re adult human females.