Boris Johnson in marrying as a "Catholic" has annulled his previous marriages and delegitimesed his children - these are the ethics of our current prime minister

[stumbledin]

On one level I dont care either way about this but thought it strange who could get married in a Catholic ceremony. But as ever our resourceful PM has "negotiated" a path that suits him - and insults his formes wives and their children. As someone on facebook said, this is how Etonians learn to rule the world! What an utter w*er!!

" ... Catholic canon law does not permit the marriage of a divorcee whose former spouse is still alive.

However, the church confirmed that as neither his six-year first marriage to Allegra Mostyn-Owen, nor his second 27-year marriage to Marina Wheeler were Catholic ceremonies they are not recognised in the eyes of the church.

... In order to marry in a Catholic church, Mr Johnson could have had his two previous marriages recognised as annulled.

(or) ... his previous marriages, for which he would have required special dispensation from the Catholic church, those marriages would have "had a lack of canonical form" and could therefore be considered invalid. ... "

Interestingly these comments are from a Telegraph article late yesterday www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/05/29/boris-wedding-did-prime-minister-marry-carrie-symonds-catholic/ which has now disappeared and been replaced with this much less questioning article www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/05/30/boris-johnson-carrie-symonds-catholic-church-wedding-married/

Wonder if some Telegraph Tory leaders got in touch and said dont be so mean!

As they say, one rule for the rich, one rule for the poor.

Why is it goady?

I don’t expect Mormons, Hindus, Muslims or any other religious group to have the same beliefs as me.

The Anglican Church didn’t want to have the same marriage laws as the Catholic Church. That is literally why the Anglican Church exists.

Henry VIII wanted an anullment, wasn’t allowed one so set up his own church. So if you want a Marriage that the Catholic Church won’t accept, get married in the Anglican Church.

Well I'm not Catholic but if I were in his first wife's shoes I'd find it very disrespectful. And the Catholic church's position on this is please respect our right to consider your (Anglican) marriage completely invalid even though we're all Christians here.

That is goady.

''The Anglican Church didn’t want to have the same marriage laws as the Catholic Church. That is literally why the Anglican Church exists.''

I am not a historian but there were other reasons too, the selling of papal indulgences contributed to protestantism. If that's an ism. not sure.

@stumbledin

For those who seem not to get the point it is about his hypocrasy.

It is irrelevant what you regard as legitimate or not, but by colluding with Catholic values he is saying he accepts that his former marriages weren't "real". And any children from the marriages not legitimate.

Its not hard to grasp that this is about an ammoral man. And what his conduct says about his values.

Why are you going on about children not being "legitimate"? I mean, how outdated is that??

Do you consider children of people who aren't married to each other to be "illegitimate" too?!

Constance, most protestant churches developed for other reasons because they are not Anglicans.

People who consider it goady.

You do understand that most Protestants don’t consider marriage a sacrament. Many Protestant churches only have one or two sacraments.

Would you consider it unreasonable for the Catholic Church to say we do not consider your former marriage a valid sacrament when the church that conducted the first marriage doesn’t believe it to be sacramental?

I also think people are talking about denominations like they are choices of cake at a tea party. They exist because they believe totally different things about really important issues like marriage.

They are saying it is a. Invalid and b. Not a sacramental marriage. They recognise it is a legal marriage.

Yes. As I said from the church’s point of view it didn’t exist. They obviously have no jurisdiction over the law.

Why would his Anglican ex wife care that the Catholic Church consider her marriage invalid. The Catholic Church also considers Anglican communion invalid!

No reason for her to care about Catholic Church theology, but that isn’t the point. Boris Johnson is asking us to believe that, despite all evidence to the contrary, he suddenly takes the sacrament of marriage seriously and that his previous marriages had less meaning to him.

His youngest child with his second wife was just a little older than Wilfred is now when he started his 4 year affair with Petronella Wyatt. (She is reported to have had one miscarriage and one abortion).

5 years later he got another woman pregnant.

He initially denied both relationships.

It’s pretty clear that there were more affairs and more lies.

To gloss over all of this and pretend that somehow this is his first marriage is wrong.

Oh yes, I am not convinced he takes it seriously at all.

But I don’t think that is the church’s primary concern. They just have to avoid readministering a sacrament. In the same way they won’t baptise someone twice.

*But I don’t think that is the church’s primary I thought churches did concern themselves with people’s behaviour, and did try to ensure that people weren’t just taking the piss when they had a church wedding. Otherwise what is the point?

Sorry, post fail there.

I thought churches did concern themselves with people’s behaviour, and did try to ensure that people weren’t just taking the piss when they had a church wedding. Otherwise what is the point?

The point is that the church makes sure that God enters the marriage, making it between three people, not two, by administering a sacrament.

It can’t do much to make sure people are sincere, beyond marriage preparation. I am sure many parents and godparents don’t mean the baptism vows either.

I mean, many people wouldn’t want a sacramental marriage because they want divorce to mean the end of their marriage in every sense.

They might want their marriage to end but that doesn’t mean they want their entire marriage to be invalid.

Why would his Anglican ex wife care that the Catholic Church consider her marriage invalid. The Catholic Church also considers Anglican communion invalid!

I can’t speak for Johnson’s ex-wife but for me I care that the Catholic Church doesn’t recognise my marriage because my marriage isn’t invalid. My husband doesn’t get to pretend the last 5 years didn’t happen if we break up. But it also pisses me off that the Catholic Church don’t recognise my Anglican communion too. The Catholic Church is so against anyone who is not Catholic, it’s not a welcoming space. It’s hard to want to get married somewhere that you feel so unaccepted in, yet I’m supposed to be ok that if my husband and I divorce, he declares our marriage invalid? Just because the Catholic Church says that’s fine. By the way, DH is actually really pissed off that Johnson has done this and invalidated a 25 year marriage.

@LibertyMole

The point is that the church makes sure that God enters the marriage, making it between three people, not two, by administering a sacrament.

It can’t do much to make sure people are sincere, beyond marriage preparation. I am sure many parents and godparents don’t mean the baptism vows either.

I think Anglican Catholics think that their ceremony involves God??!

That's why it just seems so rude.

And the two branches of the church are supposed to behave like Christians! because they ARE.

@InTheNightWeWillWish yeh, I know what you mean. I'm Irish, so not Anglican Catholic but it just seems so petty when the way forward is surely to show a Christian respect for each others ceremonies.

Constance, the two churches are not in communion.

The Catholic Church is in Communion with the Orthodox Church. Neither are with the Anglican Church.

The Catholic Church respects Anglican ceremonies as much as it respects Hindu ceremonies.

If however, someone is a confirmed Catholic, they made a vow to marry in the Catholic Church. If they get married elsewhere they have broken their vow to the church and their marriage is invalid.

Two anglicans marrying in an Anglican Church is accepted as valid by the Catholic Church.

But a Catholic doing that when he has vowed not to is viewed similar to Bigamy.

It can’t do much to make sure people are sincere, beyond marriage preparation

I think there is a point that you can recognise that you are being used for a serial adulterer to generate some positive spin, and this would be it.

So Johnson and CS freely commit adultery, with all the hurt and harm that causes, but suddenly are ardent Catholics when they want a posh wedding in a special church. Very convincing.

@thinkingaboutLangCleg

So Johnson and CS freely commit adultery, with all the hurt and harm that causes, but suddenly are ardent Catholics when they want a posh wedding in a special church. Very convincing.

I wouldn't get too upset about the wife he was committing adultery on. She did it with him to his previous wife...

@LibertyMole

The Catholic Church respects Anglican ceremonies as much as it respects Hindu ceremonies.

If however, someone is a confirmed Catholic, they made a vow to marry in the Catholic Church. If they get married elsewhere they have broken their vow to the church and their marriage is invalid.

Two anglicans marrying in an Anglican Church is accepted as valid by the Catholic Church.

But a Catholic doing that when he has vowed not to is viewed similar to Bigamy.

Wow, I can see why people are turning away from the catholic church. That is shocking. That the catholic church, a christian religion views an anglican ceremony in the same way as it views a hindu ceremony.

Can you not see how that is GOADY

Why is it goady?

Why wouldn’t the Catholic Church respect Hindus?

God is present in all religions.

Hindus aren't Christians though. Why would the Catholic church not respect another Christian religion's ceremonies as being similar to its own? It seems deliberately offensive.Especially when the lack of respect is one way. Anglican churches recognise catholic marriages because they are Christian.

@C0nstance

Well I'm not Catholic but if I were in his first wife's shoes I'd find it very disrespectful. And the Catholic church's position on this is please respect our right to consider your (Anglican) marriage completely invalid even though we're all Christians here.

That is goady.

It is not correct that the catholic church consider anglican marriages invalid in general. I don't know why or how Johnston could get married in a catholic church but I do know that the catholic religion recognises Anglican marriages in an Anglican church if the person getting married is Anglican and they also recognise registry office marriages if the persons getting married is anglican (because the anglican church recognises them). They do not recognise marriages by baptised catholics unless they are in a catholic church because the that is what cannon law says. It is bullshit that I as a catholic (never married) can't marry my DH (who is anglican and was married in a registry office) and BJ having been married twice can but it is the way the rules are! I don't know why his first or second wife would give a shit frankly whether he gets married in a catholic church or a registry office.

His first marriage was a catholic one. It was anulled.
Will he try and get this one annulled too when he inevitably remarries again?

Can you not see how that is GOADY

Why is it goady. They are not a country not recognising individuals rights. They are a religion that says if you don't follow the rules of our religion then we don't recognise a ceremony you have taken part in.

Frankly if you are looking for things wrong with the catholic church I could give you a long list before worrying about baptised catholics marriages in another churches/registry offices not being recognised by the catholic church.

Omg, I give up. Because the respect is one way only. One Christian church recognises anothers marriage ceremony but the respect is one way and not reciprocated.

If you can't see why that is unchristian I give up.