Stonewall defends its direction to BBC

[WarriorN]

Stonewall boss defends new strategy amid criticism www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57281448

This is absolutely foul from Roz Kaveny. Some TRAs can't see a disaster or atrocity they can't try and centre themselves in.

I once saw a German Historian absolutely wreck an American "Queer Historian" who tried to push this sort of narrative. He said he'd only ever seen it coming from Americans.

twitter.com/DieMadTerf/status/1398811090566275077?s=20

This is absolutely foul from Roz Kaveny. Some TRAs can't see a disaster or atrocity they can't try and centre themselves in.

Malignant self-centredness doesn't quite capture the full horror of that thread.

Roz, So being a misogynist is ok though?

It doesn't help an argument to compare with antisemetism.

As a pp, herself Jewish, pointed out, there's many antisemetic analogies with tra tropes.

They're choosing antisemitism as there's been so much about it recently in the Labour Party and it's sometimes a more complex issue to understand to some. So those less able to analyse the intersections will accept that GC is "bad" verbatim.

Interesting contribution from the Guardian 's Susanna Rustin:

I wrote last year about my gender critical feminist views. I explained them as clearly as I could & also tried to explain how my ideas - rooted in socialist materialist feminist tradition - differ from gender identity ideas & activism. I am horrified to see Nancy Kelley of stonewalluk likening these views to anti-semitism - widely understood as an explicitly murderous prejudice. My father & one side of my family is Jewish. I'm a committed lifelong anti-racist. I support trans people's right to live free from discrimination & prejudice. As do all the gender critical feminists I know & respect.
At its most basic, our belief is that sex & sexism are politically important. It's appalling that Stonewall regards this as a form of hatred

twitter.com/SusannaRustin/status/1398547419818778625

She links to her article:

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/sep/30/feminists-anti-trans-idea-sex-gender-oppression

This is absolutely foul from Roz Kaveny. Some TRAs can't see a disaster or atrocity they can't try and centre themselves in.

The "killer response" argument that seems to have become the trans activist party line is that because those murdered in the Holocaust included gay people, this means that it's appropriate to refer to gender critical people as being like anti-Semites. It is such a stupid line that gender critical people aren't finding it so straightforward to respond to, it has a nailing jelly to a wall character.

I support trans people's right to live free from discrimination & prejudice. As do all the gender critical feminists I know & respect.

What amounts to "discrimination" is going to be controversial here, (is it real discrimination to stop someone from self-ID-ing into a group they wouldn't otherwise belong to?), but certainly, GC feminists aren't calling for anything like the historic persecution of Jewish people.

Neither do (compelety false) antisemitic ideas like pseudo-scientific racial theories, or the idea that Jews ritually kill Christian children say, really compare with the completely true statement that you can't biologically change your sex; that biology is unquestionably important in some contexts like sport; and biology is arguably, reasonably, important in certain other contexts also.

What this charity is doing is just poisoning the public debate and trying to demonize their ideological opponents, because that strategy unfortunately can work well for them, and it's probably a lot easier than having to defend their position.

@nauticant

This is absolutely foul from Roz Kaveny. Some TRAs can't see a disaster or atrocity they can't try and centre themselves in.

The "killer response" argument that seems to have become the trans activist party line is that because those murdered in the Holocaust included gay people, this means that it's appropriate to refer to gender critical people as being like anti-Semites. It is such a stupid line that gender critical people aren't finding it so straightforward to respond to, it has a nailing jelly to a wall character.

Quite. It gave me a real "What sort of response is that?" moment.

Stonewall has a ridiculous position on trans and I dont get it.

As an old school transsexual I survived perfectly well without them. I can say with complete certainty they have made my life 10 times harder.

Having gone through psychiatry and psychology, multiple surgeries and years of hormones I will never forget the day I met a man who told me of his interest in wearing his wife's underwear and how "turned on" it made him. He proudly declared that he was trans "just like me". The sad part is according to the Stonewall umbrella he is :-(

Debbie Hayton was unusually harsh in along the same lines on Twitter the other day:

It all went wrong for transsexual people when you showed up in 2014.

We had what we needed including Equality Act & health care. You did nothing to help us secure those rights. Nothing.

You then appropriated our rights in your ludicrous campaign to queer society.

Quite. Just as all the companies now flying rainbow flags did nothing to win gay rights - they started doing it after they were won - Stonewall did nothing to win trans rights.

In both cases, it's for another agenda.

Still reeling to see Roz insisting Janice Turner’s quote about children being sacrificed for TRA ideology carries a dogwhistle nod to the ‘blood libel’ antisemitic slur. I mean... what did you just say?

@LazyHorizon

Still reeling to see Roz insisting Janice Turner’s quote about children being sacrificed for TRA ideology carries a dogwhistle nod to the ‘blood libel’ antisemitic slur. I mean... what did you just say?

There really is NO level they won’t stoop to. It’s beyond belief.

The trans activist argument in supporting Stonewall over this seems to be following the approach outlined by Blue Jam a couple of decades back:

@BlueLipstickRocks

This is it. I just don’t understand why people have hitched a ride on this wagon.

Thanks Furries

Just seen this from SexMatters on Twitter. 'Liz Truss urges official withdrawal from Stonewall scheme.'
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/a49372ae-c16b-11eb-a26e-4c086490cfe1?shareToken=83d905161fecd4793ed97285e2783690

Fantastic news!
I really like Liz Truss

[quote Mollyollydolly]Just seen this from SexMatters on Twitter. 'Liz Truss urges official withdrawal from Stonewall scheme.'
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/a49372ae-c16b-11eb-a26e-4c086490cfe1?shareToken=83d905161fecd4793ed97285e2783690[/quote]

👏👏👏

Well, good morning everyone!

. A source close to Truss said she shared the concerns raised by the EHRC over the scheme’s value for money, particularly as the civil service has its own in-house workplace diversity programme.

This is the thing, it's very possible to have a strong diversity programme and policies without using or needing stonewall.

The whole thing has become a virtue signalling badge trend without any real understanding of what it's all about.

It has always struck me as strange that organisations seem to feel the need to publicise their 'inclusivity' when it comes to LGB and T issues, but not when it comes to any of the other protected characteristics. And to pay for the right to do so, too. I've never heard of accreditation from the Muslim Council of GB, or from the Board of Deputies of BritishJews, for example, or of these organisations charging other organisations for supporting Muslims and Jews at work. I could be mistaken, of course.

This is the thing, it's very possible to have a strong diversity programme and policies without using or needing stonewall.

Personally I think you can ONLY have a strong diversity programme without Stonewall.

Absolutely Blue!

The narrative is that you can't though. They've cultivated a perception by society that they're the gold standard.

Worryingly that's certainly the perception in schools.

Also, I only discovered last year that NHS trusts have the capacity to buy into schemes such as stonewall for schools if they're data shows a particular rise in young people seeking support for LGB and T difficulties. So the nhs would provide the funding to deliver the training.

Same thing happened in my local council through a drive to try to tackle extremism in the city; they plopped No Outsiders into various primary schools as a part of the programme.

*their data

@WarriorN

. A source close to Truss said she shared the concerns raised by the EHRC over the scheme’s value for money, particularly as the civil service has its own in-house workplace diversity programme.

This is the thing, it's very possible to have a strong diversity programme and policies without using or needing stonewall.

The whole thing has become a virtue signalling badge trend without any real understanding of what it's all about.

Why actually do anything in practice to improve diversity when you can merely pay for an expensive sticker that says you like diversity.

Its almost like its too much like hard work to understand the issues themselves. The lazy virtue signalling option is much easier and come ready packaged.

Its like the social equivalent of a microwave ready meal when you are on a diet. Tastes nice and leaves you wanting more but utterly terrible for your health and you could just have made a sandwich or omelette.

Hence Stonewall finding a nice easy gap in the market and they've made a package off it - to pay themselves nice salaries and bulldose their way through the rights of women and safeguarding protection as these don't really offer them a lot in life.