Stonewall defends its direction to BBC

[WarriorN]

Stonewall boss defends new strategy amid criticism www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57281448

She also expressed frustration that the volume of media coverage and debate around trans rights meant "it can be difficult to get across all the work we do.... focusing on the experiences of LGB [lesbian, gay and bisexual] people."

Such as?

How many times were lesbians mentioned in that last annual report, again?

And...

The whole thing about not taking responsibility for what Stonewall does and instead twisting it and trying to shift blame elsewhere is interesting.

Its something to look out for in future because i am willing to bet it will become a pattern.

'its not our fault' and 'we didn't say it that way'.

Watch for the blame shift.

How many times were lesbians mentioned in that last annual report, again?

No. No. She said on the video that even gender critical lesbians will benefit from all the other work that Stonewall do though. She is definitely working for all LGB people.

Mmm... I saw nothing mentioned though on dealing with the abuse that Lesbians get from other parts of the ‘community’ represented by Stonewall. Nothing at all. Like it doesn’t even happen.

The whole thing about not taking responsibility for what Stonewall does and instead twisting it and trying to shift blame elsewhere is interesting.*

Rather like the 1st rule of misogyny: Women are responsible for what men do.

One of the issues is that the protected characteristic of gender reassignment might as well be gender identity - this wasn't foreseen when the act was drafted so there's no need to be actually on the gender reassignment path just to say you're thinking about it.

The whole concept of gender reassignment needs to be looked at again

@Letsgetreadytocrumble

She is definitely going to regret that desperate statement that gender critical beliefs are akin to Anti-Semitism.

And well done to the BBC for laying it out clearly as well:

The Equality and Human Rights Commission (EHRC) has said its defence of the right to hold "gender critical beliefs" - that sex cannot be changed - "does not have an impact on our commitment to uphold the rights of transgender people".

Yes - stating the GC position in 5 simple words made me cheer! It's so unusual to do this and not portray us as some bogeymen questioning people's right to exist.

I really want to see them defend their stance on revising the rape by deception laws. This was beautifully covered the Michaela Coles I May Destroy you, albeit it was through removal of a condom during sex.
This is a brilliant and hugely influential piece of telly, especially for the younger generation. I don't see how you can retain removal of a condom as rape by deception, but think that the right to privacy of trans people over their sex and what genitals they do/do not have trumps the rights of their partners to set their own sexual boundaries.

I

So she believes the EHRC are akin to anti semites?

And yet on her appointment she said in the Observer
“I’m really focused on the idea that we don’t have to convert everybody to our way of understanding gender,” Nancy Kelley said in her first interview since taking up the position as head of the UK’s leading gay rights charity. “For Stonewall to succeed, it doesn’t have to make people believe as it believes. What it has to do is make people support changes that make trans lives easier.”

Surely she can't stay in her job after that statement. She's also made it toxic, who would want to take it on now? This could be Stonewall's Ratner moment (with any luck).

I don't see how you can retain removal of a condom as rape by deception, but think that the right to privacy of trans people over their sex and what genitals they do/do not have trumps the rights of their partners to set their own sexual boundaries.

You're asking for logic here. There is no logic to it. There is no rationality in it. The whole movement is based upon destruction of language and meaning to promote an ideological objective.

“ I think that this is an unusually good article by the BBC. It doesn't lie about what the gender critical position is. It reports the mad, offensive things that Kelly says, it doesn't endorse them. It's sunlight. I think people would be mad to complain to the BBC. Complain to the Charity Commission.”

Completely agree. This is not time to complain to the BBC. It is one of their most balanced articles yet.

Complain to the Charity commission.

Another half Jewish woman here and I am so incensed by this I could barely twatter my rage. My local Synagogue has issued warnings for Jewish people to lie low this weekend. Stay invisible, batten down the hatches, appease the locals. Too familiar.

To see Stonewall using this, right now, to see Nancy's own racism and antisemitism in trying to appropriate this, is just breathtaking. So offensive. They will be along to tell us how the Holocaust was particularly bad for TW any minute, but even that is a horrible misappropriation of LGB history.

@Doyoumind

The scariest thing is that I think this will pass with little comment or recognition outside of circles who follow it closely. But it gives the green light to TRAs to continue to mispresent what the law actually says and to use the antisemitism analogy.

Yes, but the circles who follow it closely include people like EHRC, ACAS and I expect governmental bodies like the WESC.

Which will have impact.

Another thought strikes me..

It is only 5 minutes since some anti vaxxers protesting, used the Star of David and tried to draw an analogy with the way Jews had been treated by the Nazis. Quite rightly, this disgusting behaviour drew scorn from all quarters.

This seems to me to be a very similar type of incident. I wonder if it will be reported more widely in the Press as such?

Also, surprised that this is reported by the BBC but none of the papers.

I don't know if I've ever heard the BBC articulate what gc views are 'that sex cannot be changed' - so clearly before. Is this new? I can't recall even hearing the phrase 'gender critical' on the beeb.

'Stonewall's been criticised for using the term "gender identity" when referring to the Equality Act's protected characteristic of "gender reassignment".

But Ms Kelley described that as "the difference between natural language and statutory language". '

So, she's effectively saying that 'gender reassignment' is the equivalent of 'gender identity', just phrased differently? That doesn't even make any sense.

Backed into a corner and coming out with crap
Comparing GC to anti semitic is abhorrent
Disgusting

Saying that only difference between identity/reassignment is the difference between natural and legal language is disingenuous trickery. She must know that.

Fucking hell

The clip in the article is obviously part of a longer interview, does anyone know if the full length video is available anywhere?

I think she's lost the argument early on by invoking anti-Semitism.

@Forgotthebins

How DARE she say that gender critical thought is analogous to anti-Semitism? Has she got any connection to the world at all outside her teeny tiny bubble? Has she actually heard of the Holocaust?

Until now I was waiting for Stonewall to get it together. I thought they were a good organisation that had lost their way, maybe tried to do too much but didn’t have enough money to do it all well. But this is beyond the pale and if she represents their thinking then they are a lost cause. I no longer believe that the exclusion of women’s rights from their thinking is accidental, I think they are an organisation without an ethical standard.

The more I think about it, comparing a debate which at its core is a debate about who gets to define a set of words, with the ancient hatred that led to 6 million murders in the Holocaust - that comparison is maybe anti-Semitic. Keen to hear what Jewish MNers think about it. And yes, LGBT and Roma people were murdered in the Holocaust too but the vast majority murdered in the genocide were Jewish.

It’s beyond fucking outrageous

I think that the Auntie has just shot itself in the foot

One of my old bosses was 'encouraged' to apply for the position of CEO at Stonewall. He said he wouldn't touch it with a bargepole, it was a poisoned chalice .. how right he was. One of his better decisions.
She'll regret that interview .. it is as bad as anything the most rabid TRA would say.

Also, I think the departure of Ben Hunter and all our complaints are making a difference at the BBC. That's a good article.

In a way it's quite heartening. They have no good arguments: they're reduced to lobbing insults.

They forget that many of the women who spotted the problem years ago are lesbians. Lesbians were the first group of women Stonewall tried to shut down. They are supposed to support lesbians but they've been at the heart of the slow death of visible lesbian society.