”I’m no prude”

[YouShouldLeave]

So, so , so many times i’ve read this on around MN.
And it’s just hurts my brain.

As bad as slut-shaming is, i also think there should be conversation about prude-, virgin- and now can add vanilla-shaming to the list.

Prude "a person who is or claims to be easily shocked by matters relating to sex or nudity."

I don't think that people should be shamed for being a little conservative or vanilla in their attitudes to sex and nudity... but a prude, to me, goes further. They make a big fuss about innocuous things, and that makes them come across as weird and obsessed and like they have nothing better to do than get offended.

Of course the devil is in the detail and definitions. A crime-thriller has a brief sex scene which shows very little. To what extent is it prudish to say "that scene was totally unnecessary"... on the one hand is was pretty harmless; on the other it was pretty pointless, and what is prudish about objecting to pointless nudity / sex?

Prude is definitely used to shame people who have an objection to something inappropriate. It's used to imply you are weird and victorian about sex in general, rather than having a problem with a specific inappropriate situation.

I agree "vanilla" often sneered at too. It sometimes means "doesn't fancy pretending to be a porn star and do anal"

In my youth my sexual attitude at times earned me the label slut. Imo I really wasn't but neither did I save myself for my husband.
By today's standards I would be positively, certainly labelled a prude.
Which just to me shows how much boundaries have been eroded and what one has to be willing to do or champion is a series of red flags that people prefer to wave rather than heed.

I just think that thse words are used to break womens boundaries.

As much as women are aloud to say they are also should be aloud to say no.
Without shaming or mockery.
It’s should be okey to say no to whatever act they don’t want to do, having few sexual partner or no partners at all.
Or not wanting to watch swx scenes or hear it the music or ask friends maybe to tone it down if they’re going in too much of details about their sex lives.

It shouldn’t only work in one way.

The widespread pearl-clutching censorious prudishness about sex, nudity and to some extent porn & sex work was one of the things which surprised me about MN when I joined.

I genuinely thought most people were a bit more grown-up about this stuff these days. 🤷🏻‍♀️

There is the idea that it is cooler and more liberal somehow to have a wide range of sexual interests and activities that you will participate in. Which is an odd attitude when it's all down to personal preference, and if you aren't interested in xyz then you just aren't interested in it.

Being conventional in your personal sexual preferences doesn't make you a prude, nor does it mean your opinion on topics relating to sex are invalid.

I also agree that "prude" is used to shut down discussion, for example if women are not supportive of prostitution the accusation often is that it is because they are not "sex positive" and are prudes. When the objection is actually to do with the harm it causes rather than any judgement about sex.

Oh, look. There's an example of it right there.

I genuinely thought most people were a bit more grown-up about this stuff these days. 🤷🏻‍♀️

#proofofconcept 😂

The widespread pearl-clutching censorious prudishness about sex, nudity and to some extent porn & sex work was one of the things which surprised me about MN when I joined.

I genuinely thought most people were a bit more grown-up about this stuff these days. 🤷🏻‍♀️

How is it "more grown up" to be OK about things that are damaging women and their relationships I.e. sec workers and porn?

OP I'm totally with you. I'm very open and happy with my sexuality and how I express it but have been called prudish and vanilla by partners for essentially having my own boundaries about what I'm prepared to do (e.g. no anal for me thanks very much).

I think its the modern day version of "frigid" which is what boys used to say to try to get sex when I was a teenager.

@AssassinatedBeauty

Oh, look. There's an example of it right there.

Right on cue

I genuinely thought most people were a bit more grown-up about this stuff these days. 🤷🏻‍♀️

QED.

@Susie477

The widespread pearl-clutching censorious prudishness about sex, nudity and to some extent porn & sex work was one of the things which surprised me about MN when I joined.

I genuinely thought most people were a bit more grown-up about this stuff these days. 🤷🏻‍♀️

See this is what i mean.

We can have different view, no need for name calling.

And i was suprised to see it in feminist circles of all places.

@Susie477

The widespread pearl-clutching censorious prudishness about sex, nudity and to some extent porn & sex work was one of the things which surprised me about MN when I joined.

I genuinely thought most people were a bit more grown-up about this stuff these days. 🤷🏻‍♀️

What? Never come across this on MN. Quite the opposite.

Any negativity towards sex work is not about being a prude. It's about objecting to the exploitation of women.

Prude, frigid, humourless feminist, lesbian — all words used by men when women hold their boundaries.

@Shedbuilder

Prude, frigid, humourless feminist, lesbian — all words used by men when women hold their boundaries.

Perhaps. But teens / young men and women who want to wait until they are married before having sex are roundly mocked and criticised, even by feminists. Taking such a stance is virtually unthinkable in 21st century Britain.

I agree with OP, though. And I think MN is split between the bum sex Friday lot (is that still a thing?) and the feminist posters, who rightly point out that certain practices, once very much outside of the mainstream, have now become normalised thanks to porn.

@Shedbuilder

Prude, frigid, humourless feminist, lesbian — all words used by men when women hold their boundaries.

It’s not only men. A lot of the name calling has come from other women.

Well, yes — men and women who are doing men's work for them.

The shift to me has been from: "you should not attack us for our private lives" to: "you cannot express any view unless it's to publicly endorse our private lives".

Oh look, a 'cool' girl.
Thankfully, my husband is of the generation that consider anal to be counter productive as he's rather old fashioned in that he thinks sex should be for the pleasure of both parties. Not into porn, prostitution etc for that and other more feminist reasons.
Of course, if you express this on Mumsnet people say you're lying and DH is obviously sneaking off to watch hardcore anal because men can't help themselves.

I hope he's not in the minority but the cool girls like to convince me otherwise.

There's more clutching of pearl necklaces imo tbh.

I have been accused of being a prude in real life by quite a few people. On each occasion it was nothing to do with me acting shocked about sex/nudity but entirely about me voicing an opinion that the other person did not want to hear and asking them to look at other aspects of something they were trying to persuade me was perfectly heathy and cool. Eg. My suggesting that prostitutes were not all highly sexed and being paid handsomely for doing what they enjoy, suggesting that a man going to lapdancing clubs is disrespectful to his wife, arguing against men who claimed it was 'common knowledge' that 'most' women who claim to have been sexually assaulted by high profile men actually enjoyed it but want to make some money from the story etc etc.

We Can't Consent to This has some great T shirts with Neo-prude and Vanilla on them as well as WeCantConsenttoThis.
DD, her boyfriend and her best friend were more than happy with T shirts I sent them and posting pictures of themselves wearing them online.

Here's a link (I hope) to the shop.

wecantconsenttothis.teemill.com/collection/shop-all/

@Susie477

The widespread pearl-clutching censorious prudishness about sex, nudity and to some extent porn & sex work was one of the things which surprised me about MN when I joined.

I genuinely thought most people were a bit more grown-up about this stuff these days. 🤷🏻‍♀️

You mean you were surprised to find yourself out of step with popular opinion and decided everyone else must be wrong? And in an effot to demonstrate how 'grown up' you are you decide to indulge in a spot of playground name calling?

Calling someone prudish, references to ‘pearl clutching’ are all very definitely used to erode women’s boundaries and diminish their opinions. Which puts me on guard as it isn’t women who are benefiting from this name calling.

Oh dear! I appear to have ruffled a few feathers.

Of course everyone is entitled to be conservative / vanilla / prudish (pls choose preferred terminology) if they wish. Their body, their choice. I might not understand their choices, but so what?

The problems start when those people then try to impose their own morality onto society by seeking to control or censor what others are allowed to read, watch, think or do with their own bodies and their own lives. I choose not to work in the sex industry, but as a libertarian, I am opposed to restrictions on those who make different choices to me. The key word, of course, being ‘choose’.

And I will take the ‘cool girl’ comment as a compliment, thank you.