”I’m no prude”

[YouShouldLeave]

So, so , so many times i’ve read this on around MN.
And it’s just hurts my brain.

As bad as slut-shaming is, i also think there should be conversation about prude-, virgin- and now can add vanilla-shaming to the list.

Im really prudish.

I do lean towards liberal normally and would be interested in measures around womens safety and healthcare for sex workers but my understanding is places that have trialled this have ended up with massive human trafficking problems.

The internet is seemingly completely unpolicable and there seeems to be no way of knowing how safe the women involved are or if the consented, how free the choice was and the word complicit is so accurate here.

Jesus @FindTheTruth that poster on that thread was something else! Cannot believe accusations of being vanilla I hate that term are being thrown at people who have concerns about the content of sex education for children. And how bloody misogynistic it is too!

Libertarianism is to oppose restrictions, and comes from a place of privilege, naivete and ignorance. It is an obvious view of human relations as articulated by a self involved 16 year old boy in comfortable circumstances who has no mental narrative of how he got to where he is at that point. These kids are all Athena sprung entire from the brow of Zeus. No one created them raised them taught them. They know everything, understand everything, how to solve all problems because cause then effect and assume a closed system is a real system. Libertarians are all powerful teens who need to live a longer life and grow up.

Completely agree with OP and others. For every female action there develops an unequal and opposite male reaction. So...you want to safeguard your body and your mental health and establish limits and conditions to your own sexual experience? You must be a proooood...

Funnily enough, I can think of instances when I have been called

frigid
prudish
vanilla

and also

slutty
nympho
loose

You can choose any insult, so long as it's an insult.

I didn't care about 14 year old boys calling me frigid when I was 14 to make me feel ashamed of saying no to them.

I don't care about anyone calling me prude now to make me feel ashamed of caring about slavery.

Well said Dextrous. And when these types of posters appear, I get the vibe of a male, privileged, mocking, know it all, 'safeguard shamer with no empathy for women. why they come on a feminist board I don't know.

@StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind

Jesus *@FindTheTruth* that poster on that thread was something else! Cannot believe accusations of being vanilla I hate that term are being thrown at people who have concerns about the content of sex education for children. And how bloody misogynistic it is too!

Yes the poster had no empathy Strawberry. the way I see it, most people are good but then there are groups who want to remove safeguarding for a reason. It's a tell. and this tactic of shaming you for being concerned is part of the toolkit. Any man who wants to remove safeguarding for women and children, needs their hardrive looking at and I suspect the same goes for posters like this.

•At any given time in 2016, an estimated40.3 millionpeople arein modern slavery, including 24.9 million in forced labour and15.4 million in forced marriage.

•It means there are5.4 victims of modern slavery for every 1,000 peoplein the world.

•1 in 4 victims of modern slavery are children.

•Out of the24.9 millionpeople trappedin forced labour,16 millionpeople are exploitedin the private sectorsuch as domestic work, construction or agriculture;4.8 millionpersonsinforced sexual exploitation, and4 millionpersonsinforced labour imposed by stateauthorities.

•Women and girls are disproportionately affectedby forced labour, accounting for 99% of victims in the commercial sex industry, and 58% in other sectors

Source:Global Estimates of Modern Slavery: Forced Labour and Forced Marriage, Geneva, September 2017.

www.ilo.org/global/topics/forced-labour/lang--en/index.htm

Can someone run past me why self-identified libertarians don't care about these people's liberty?

Why is it a higher priority to anyone that one (quite possibly hypothetical) woman has the liberty to choose to work in the sex trade, than it is that another nine women have no liberty at all?

No one has ever referred to me as a prude. No one who knows me would. I'm simply not. But there's no fucking way that in the majority of cases sex work isn't exploitation of women who are not in a position to make a truly free choice.

It is of course indisputable that women can say no to whatever they personally are uncomfortable with sexually and shouldn’t be pressured into anything they don’t want to do, or suppress their opinions. But “prudishness” has also been used to censor women and oppress their sexuality and can easily tip over into misogyny, e.g nice girls don’t sleep around, women being shamed for their sexual preferences, men (and some other women) regarding it as dirty if a woman has had multiple partners. It happens a lot on here, people express these opinions saying ‘maybe I’m a prude but I don’t think it’s right to have over 5 sexual partners’ or something, when that isn’t being a prude, that’s just shaming another woman’s choice. Of course if someone wants under 5, only one, or even zero sexual partners that’s absolutely fine, but when self-confessed prudes use their own beliefs to shame other women that’s no better than the opposite scenario of sexually conservative women being shamed or pressured.

When you dig down I think maybe people are not always using the word in the same way.

Sometimes it's meant to suggest that someone is sexually naive or a little disgusted or precious about sex, and they are interpreting something in that light. Sometimes that might be a fair observation, though maybe not a kind way to put it.

But it's also used to suggest that any idea that sexual boundaries are a good thing, either at a personal or social level, is lame and pathetic.

It's a question of degree, Doyou. I was called prudish by some extreme BDSM advocates when I questioned whether cutting as a sex act was actually a good idea. There will always be someone ready to judge a woman on the basis of how accessible/willing she is for sex.

The point is that it's an ad hom, a value judgement that deflects from the argument.

Nobody should be calling anybody anything, instead, we should be discussing the issues, using evidence and rational debate, as Pots is doing above, for example. Focus on the issue, not the person debating.

TedMullins:
... But “prudishness” has also been used to censor women...

Yes, men want to exert control over women, and will cheerfully be inconsistent as long as control is being exerted. The different motives are whether the insulter wants public or private control over women.

@Doyoumind

No one has ever referred to me as a prude. No one who knows me would. I'm simply not. But there's no fucking way that in the majority of cases sex work isn't exploitation of women who are not in a position to make a truly free choice.

But why would you or anyone have to proof they are not prudes?

There shoudn’t be any name calling.
No girl or woman is frigid or prude etc.
No matter what their beliefs, boundaries, likes/dislikes or libido is.

Forgot to say:

It’s the opposite sides of the same misogynistic coin.

Prude if you don’t, slut if you do.
All aims to same, control women’s sexual behaviour.

"No girl or woman is frigid or prude etc."

I am both, so that's not true.
However, that doesn't mean that prude shaming is OK. That's using it as an insult rather than making a factual statement.

The more women are objectified sexually and the more degrading sex acts women are supposed to perform (thinking online porn influence) the more of a prude I’ve become.

Thankfully, my husband is of the generation that consider anal to be counter productive as he's rather old fashioned in that he thinks sex should be for the pleasure of both parties.

This has confused me. Anal sex can be pleasurable for both parties?

Only if you have a prostate do the bonus outweigh the cons.
But I am not an expert.
I don't know what the difference is between a bit of fun and a ruptured anus. It's not my area.

I don't know what the difference is between a bit of fun and a ruptured anus.

I think size of the penis may play a role in pleasure and fun vs. damage. I can't imagine doing it with someone who was particularly well endowed, let's say. It's one area of sex where size definitely matters. Also preparation, not just going straight into it.

I'm not saying it can't be damaging btw, and I'm not arguing against anything said on this thread. What I originally replied to just seemed worded in such a way as to assume it is always only pleasurable for one person.

@Susie477

The widespread pearl-clutching censorious prudishness about sex, nudity and to some extent porn & sex work was one of the things which surprised me about MN when I joined.

I genuinely thought most people were a bit more grown-up about this stuff these days. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Someone having a different moral code to you is not a sign of immaturity. Taking the high ground because they do, just might be.