Posie putting her money where her mouth is. Lets do this.

[Fallingirl]

Posie is planning to re-build the women’s sector, starting with crowd funding for a women-only refuge.

So what's the point then?

If women are as bad as men then why separate them?

It's certainly better for trans widows if refuges are single sex.

@Mollyollydolly

It's simple, I think women should support each other, raise each other up. I don't agree with everything Posie says and that's fine, but attacks on her are always deeply personal. I don't want any part of it, just like on another thread on here where people cant be pleased Arlene Foster won her libel case because they don't agree with her political views. That's it.

Someone earlier said I was unfair in my response because you are 'on our side'.

But the 'vitriol' here is nothing compared to elsewhere.

I also find the recent threads uncomfortable.

The point is that women all over the world of all sorts of backgrounds, religious persuasions, political beliefs, levels of oppression. Now and through history.

Are way way way more likely to care about women and children.

If politics is all male as it used to be here and still dominantly is, and around the world. Men run things. The situation of women and girls is not even on the table. At all.

Yes some women have awful views. But no more awful than the men. That's often overlooked. And even women who have views the same as the men on some things seem to care more about children etc.

On feminism.

In my view. Well how I approach it. I know what I think and I always have done. I have learnt words and arguments that explained how I felt already.

Feminism is a very broad thing and loads of women who take feminist action would never give that label to themselves. And that's ok.

I for a while was invited to a load of private 2nd wave type feminist groups on SM. my god the infighting. The egos. And stuff that I could never agree with in a million years.

So in the end. From what I've learnt.

Women care about women and children more than men, in general irrespective of politics.

Feminist is just a label and often a dirty word. Actions are what matter.

Strong outspoken women who can get people to listen have been and are hated. By both women and men. In general. Judged hard. Always wrong. Men can start wars and get less shit than an uncompromising woman who can get people to listen.

So donate. Don't donate. Whatever.

Never forget that women who are capable of getting shit done, for good or for ill, are always hated. It's not their place.

Want to be a feminist or not is not a choice.

Labels are irrelevant.

What you think and how your act, even in tiny ways are all it is.

I couldn't stop having these fundamental beliefs even if I tried.

Don't need cafe need safe place to live including after refuge. Think I failed that purity spiral thing as a victim sometimes maybe because white or middle class accent or sometimes confident or older and not stereotype victim don't know or maybe just bad experience just bad luck. So many most of the people so kind working so hard and don't want people to think not grateful. Real bad people are the local authorities very bad don't do what they say officially for safeguarding or support or help.

Yes, quoting mimmymum as a reasonable position is a whole new position on FWR.

Are you going for an Overton Window shift Sapphos?

Because that could be fun.

NiceGerbil I am not sure what you are arguing for or against nor which posts or posters you are taking issue with and you so seem to have misread or misinterpreted some of the posts you are apparently taking issue with.

Fundraiser over 10% now - possibly thanks to this thread. I may have snaffled the last of the £25 rewards myself.

Could we remember that women need help tonight? Who will be doing that? Some of us will be having PTSD nightmares tonight. Who will be on the end of a phone for that? Women will be leaving with just a passport, a few belongings in a bag and their kids. Tonight. Who will be there to help them?

The dedicated women of the domestic abuse sector.

That's who.

Stop talking about women's lives as a political point or "opportunity". It won't stop them being abused or beaten.

Lol

Stop talking about women's lives as a political point or "opportunity". It won't stop them being abused or beaten.

Many women here are domestic abuse survivors or work to amplify survivor's voices.

Who do you think here is being political about this?

Jean
Your personal biffs with Posie are well known and imo seriously cloud your judgement.

And you are here to guilt us all into compliance to your view.

You also assume that none of us have been abused.

You would have been better off posting anonymously. Or did that not work?

I'm posting in general tbh.

This thread is just so odd.

One woman has said I've got an idea here's how you can donate.

That has led to this massive thread. There was another one about her the other day.

She's just one woman. Donate or don't donate. Whatever.

Is the problem that my posts don't make it obvious what 'side' I'm on?

I've been on MN for yonks. I've not seen stuff like this before much. Yes there's been people who came to tell off feminists, trolls, invasions from male dominated sites, F4J dropping by to say hi... Etc etc.

But this is different.

Women saying they will turn their back on the rights of women and girls because of one woman saying or doing something at some point they disagree with?

The comparisons -by women not trolls- to trump, that woman Katie thingy who's a professional stirrer, can't remember but loads more.

I've never seen it this divisive.

Between the women there were disagreements. But this sort of character assassination/ saying well you might as well be aligning with xyz.

Where's the conversation? Why the polarisation? I suppose it's the same with everything now.

Do any of you remember posie on here? I do. I argued, with others, with her all the time. She was persistent. She posted as a woman who was not a feminist and disagreed with a lot of what was said.

All of this seems odd though.

I mean she has no political power. She is a woman and a mother. I've seen nothing in her actions around the trans issue to suggest she is not sincere, or has ulterior aims.

We're talking about a fiver here or there.

The real problem I think is that she:

Is outspoken
Is confident
Is fearless and tenacious
Does not adhere / say she is a part of this group or that group
Makes people uncomfortable

That's the problem.

Will the fact some refuges are mixed sex or have male staff dealing with them put some off though? Or add to their distress.

I, and many other women, wholeheartedly want women services to be available for those of us who may ever be in a situation that we need it. If there are males at the end of the phone, will some women put it back down again? Will a refuge truly feel a safe space for women getting away from male violence when they find themselves sharing close quarters with strange males?

I think there should be a safe space for women who will not be in a situation where there are males harassing them. Taking pictures of their erections. Or male staff who may, due to ulterior motives, insert themselves in women's trauma.

Whoever is allowing situations like that to happen seem to be doing it for fairly political reasons. It is not being done in the women's interest.

How is a campaign to build spaces like only operate in women's interest stopping the ones that exist now? How great would it be for women to be able to choose if they want mixed sex or female only spaces to go to in their hour of need.

@Jeanhatchet

Could we remember that women need help tonight? Who will be doing that? Some of us will be having PTSD nightmares tonight. Who will be on the end of a phone for that? Women will be leaving with just a passport, a few belongings in a bag and their kids. Tonight. Who will be there to help them?

The dedicated women of the domestic abuse sector.

That's who.

Stop talking about women's lives as a political point or "opportunity". It won't stop them being abused or beaten.

There have been FIVE suggestions for female only refuges to donate to. Five.

The sector has been cut to the bone. By Central government for years. And now councils have realised they can get big companies in for cheap who have no experience, to do it all. The service will be shit but I believe it's a statutory duty to provide so they are looking for cheap.

The existing funding as we have seen in Scotland with women's aid comes with strings attached.

And importantly.

Women have and do support various things. With time, money etc. If that's something they care about. Realistically this is about bunging a fiver her way. There have been loads of crowdfunders for women's stuff lately. In general the reaction hasn't been like this.

This is about her.

The infighting with women's stuff really frustrates me.

Is Julia still working with her? Surely her motivations etc are not in question?

When WPUK ditched her, she refused to stay down. She carries on as her boldly going self, and that has not sat well with some women. It’s almost as if she doesn’t know her place. That accounts for more than half of her detractors.

She is also very pretty. That explains another half of her detractors. (There is some overlap between the two detractors groups, for those concerned about the math.)

And all the while those with massive support and cash etc do NOTHING.

stonewall could and should set up specific services for the groups they represent. The groups have different risks and needs. Instead they are fighting to open up established female only things that women created for women.

One size does not fit all. Specialised services would be better for everyone. They could lobby for that. Get corporate sponsorship. Etc. But they're not.

The men who regularly come and say women get refuges and we don't. Not fair. Same as above. Do the research, find out what's the support needed, get it sorted.

Those are the ones we should be fighting.

Yet here we are playing good/ bad, all or nothing etc etc. Over some women bunging PP a few quid if they want to.

Infighting has always been a massive issue for the ', left' and Feminists are no different. I have seen it so much and I find it baffling tbh. And irritating.

Surely none of this can be about what she looks like?!

Maybe it is because she looks like an 'adult human f*male'.

@Jeanhatchet

Could we remember that women need help tonight? Who will be doing that? Some of us will be having PTSD nightmares tonight. Who will be on the end of a phone for that? Women will be leaving with just a passport, a few belongings in a bag and their kids. Tonight. Who will be there to help them?

The dedicated women of the domestic abuse sector.

That's who.

Stop talking about women's lives as a political point or "opportunity". It won't stop them being abused or beaten.

Loads of people have said they will also support existing women's services. Nobody has said they will cancel their existing support and redirect it to this campaign. I wouldn't be surprised if existing women's services got quite a few extra donations because of this campaign because it's raising awareness of the whole sector.

What do you want? If everyone on this thread said, 'Oh yes, sorry, I forgot what a terrible person Posie Parker is,' you still wouldn't have any extra people to answer the phones.

This is all just so negative, gratuitous and self-defeating.

That and being a bit obstreperous, I think Gerbil

It’s almost as if she doesn’t know her place

In a nutshell.

@LangClegsInSpace

It’s almost as if she doesn’t know her place

In a nutshell.

Yep.

I think Posie is brilliant. Another ten like her would be fantastic. Sure they would create division. They would be a nightmare to work with and many may try to distance themselves. But people would start to understand what is happening. People would find it easier to speak out. The basic assumptions would shift. And TRAs know that that is why they hate her.

@NiceGerbil

Surely none of this can be about what she looks like?!

There have been loads of comments about her looks on these boards from various people. From saying she's a Stepford wife, to complaining that she is as gender conforming as you can get, and that her looks make her subservient.

Her hair, in particular, comes in for a lot of bashing. It should have its own Twitter account.

Jean, I am confident every woman on this thread values the dedicated women of the domestic abuse sector and no woman here wants to take away from the good work they do. I understand your concerns, but the women on this thread are not trying to harm women for a political cause, they are just trying to do what they think is best. I also echo NiceGerbil “Is Julia still working with her? Surely her motivations etc are not in question?”