Posie putting her money where her mouth is. Lets do this.

[Fallingirl]

Posie is planning to re-build the women’s sector, starting with crowd funding for a women-only refuge.

@NiceGerbil Because if you do not have a legal structure then legally it is a private business. Someone has to sign the lease, sign up for utilities, employ staff. And the person who legally does that is legally liable for any issues in the refuge.

@NiceGerbil and this is very basic knowledge for a new project. There are a lot of legal responsibilities to meet. Sure you can ignore those if you want.
We have a lot more regulation than in the early 70s when refuges were first set up. That is nearly fifty years ago.

Both those things come with strings attached. Being inclusive is one. Councils and other funding sources have started their terms- must be inclusionary.

I agree with all you say Gerbil but cannot stand this language being used without being translated into honest terms, because Councils and funding sources and a political lobby are using a veneer here that is not honest, for the benefit of a specific political agenda that is not inclusive, and works for male people at the cost of female people.

Thus: Both those things come with strings attached. Being inclusive of male people who wish to be placed in female single sex provision but not of female people who require single sex provision, even those with other protected characteristics preventing access to mixed sex provision is one. Councils and other funding sources have started their terms- must be inclusionary of male people who wish to be in single sex provision, but not inclusionary of female people who cannot then continue to access the female provision.

Yes, it's a fuckton of word soup. But let's get real about this; this is egregious misuse of the word 'inclusion' while disguising how exclusionary and discriminatory and unintersectional all this is. For female people. While to the benefit of male people. Spot the sex based thinking and exceptionally sexist benefits and losses here.

This is why I'm more than glad to hear Posie out, because this nice, misleading language is causing female people in dire straits to have nowhere to go. And the political agenda now driving women's services has no problem whatsoever with this.

Here is what Posie has said in an update. All very straightforward, easy to understand, and absolutely no surprises. It includes contact details for questions.

"A few FAQs, well the answers to a few FAQs

No, I'm not personally going to counsel women and physically run a refuge. (I'm perfectly aware of my limitations) It will be staffed by experienced women.

I have women, many women, who have volunteered their expertise and time. But I'm not prepared to waste this resource on planning at this stage. We have to raise the money before we decide what can be done.

If we don't raise what we need, which is way more than £150k, then I'll find a women centred refuge/project to donate to with very clear conditions in order to receive funding.

I'm doing this because I'm damned well not okay with the women's sector flooded with men, I'm not okay that women are too afraid to publicly stand up for women, and I am okay with shouldering some of the vitriol and accusations.

Let's flood this issue with so much sunlight that everyone talks about it. Tell your friends, family and neighbours that women in the UK cannot guarantee their local refuge is staffed and serving women only. Tell them. Tell them that the CEO of a rape crisis centre is a MAN, tell them. Tell them that even Women's Aid serves men, tell them.

This may well fail, and I will look like a fool, a silly naive fool, but I would not live with myself if I didn't live by the questions I ask of others.

If not you, then who?

If not now, then when?

Any questions? Please email. [email protected]

Yeessss

If I say a woman can come and stay in my house for refuge. That's fine. That's not illegal.

If I have a big house and let 3 women and their children come and stay there for refuge... Then that's fine.

If women are volunteering their time to help with paperwork and social services and councel them... While they're staying at a friend's house... Then that's fine isn't it.

Women have been failed by the system. In so many areas.

How did it start. Women offering a roof.

Why so, I dunno. Caught up in the beurocracy? The systems have failed.

Women can start to look out for each other. As they have always done.

As an aside. The sort of. So many people seem to see what is, as all there can be. That's no way to get meaningful change. IMO.

I mean I have no idea what her plans are. She's on various SM. Ask her.

What I know is that any venture that intersects with formal structures whether it's funding from councils, the charities commission etc etc. Is bound by their terms (which can change). And is visible.

Thanks datun for the update from Posie.

@NiceGerbil and any money given to you for the costs of women staying in your house will be taxed as personal income. And there will be no entitlement to housing benefit for the women unless you are legally a private landlord, which brings legal responsibilities.
Anyway it is quite clear few details have been worked out.

"If women are volunteering their time to help with paperwork and social services and councel them... While they're staying at a friend's house... Then that's fine isn't it."

So is this the plan?

And this is what Posie does so very well - thanks Datun. She raises the issue to people who may know nothing about it, and in terms that are easy to understand.

“ Let's flood this issue with so much sunlight that everyone talks about it. Tell your friends, family and neighbours that women in the UK cannot guarantee their local refuge is staffed and serving women only. Tell them. Tell them that the CEO of a rape crisis centre is a MAN, tell them. Tell them that even Women's Aid serves men, tell them.

This may well fail, and I will look like a fool, a silly naive fool, but I would not live with myself if I didn't live by the questions I ask of others”

Indeed, if the profession feminists resent Posie for delivering, that's their problem.

al

@Sparkyduchess

And this is what Posie does so very well - thanks Datun. She raises the issue to people who may know nothing about it, and in terms that are easy to understand.

“ Let's flood this issue with so much sunlight that everyone talks about it. Tell your friends, family and neighbours that women in the UK cannot guarantee their local refuge is staffed and serving women only. Tell them. Tell them that the CEO of a rape crisis centre is a MAN, tell them. Tell them that even Women's Aid serves men, tell them.

This may well fail, and I will look like a fool, a silly naive fool, but I would not live with myself if I didn't live by the questions I ask of others”

Exactly. Either she'll do it, or she'll draw so much attention to the issue that she won't need to do it.

It's win-win.

It's just odd that people think she's doing it out of vanity.

The woman's children were doxxed, their schools were put online, her in-laws were doxxed, she was doxxed, she's been arrested, she has been threatened with some of the vilest stuff I've ever read.

At the onset of the Covid pandemic, she published one of the emails she had received from someone who wrote, in great and graphic detail, about how he hoped she would watch her youngest child die of it. He described the process from start to finish.

It's beyond me how anyone could describe her motive as self-serving.

I'm sorry to post a bit away from topic but it's just if anyone cares it may help women not go through what I did. Problem is after refuge because then it's sometimes openly mixed sex housing and nothing to do with trans. Maybe different if children and not many people care about childless or older women but if anyone does care it's what happens after refuge sometimes and sometimes instead of refuge as well especially if call police in emergency so we stay with or go back to violent partner.

Bugger. I don't know. Why don't you ask HER???

My only point is that the current systems have failed women and girls across the board. All the efforts and time of women being handed out generously to other groups by other orgs.

Any new charity wanting to start single sex services... How do they get their application through the charities commission? How do they even start up if the organisers etc are immediately under siege?

If established ones can't keep their services single sex due to funding requirements etc. What chance do new ones have? And the existing ones. Because it's funding. Have had to smile and say, this is brilliant! It's just what we always wanted!

How many women can or want to revive death and rape threats constantly. Threats to their children. People saying they know where you live...

Who would take that on?

Posie has.

Even MN. Before all this trans stuff. Years ago. Used to get DDOS attacks from random men. Why? Because in the end men don't like women doing anything that doesn't put them front and centre.

Remember the swatting? In the UK FFS. S lone woman with children and armed police crashing in, in the middle of the night.

And that was just because this was a place for women to talk.

You've seen the blood covered t-shirt, the barbed wire baseball bats. The threats day in day out to women who dare disagree.

I wouldn't want my name and face out there. Would you?

This is about squishing a mouthy woman in the end.

Donate, don't donate. Whatever. Why do important to attack her like this? I mean really what does it matter? She'll do something useful or not. Why the hooha.

Nosafe.

So much else as well.

The exploitation of those leaving care. Being moved to accommodation that is targeted by pimps and drug dealers.
The situation for children who need in patient MH care.
Etc etc

@SapphosRock

11.45 in the video Posie mentions ‘a young Muslim woman trying to escape an honour based, nasty archaic ruling’.

This is a clear example of white savior complex and race is therefore absolutely relevant to the discussion.

The important part for me in that sentence is woman. The refuge is for women as a sex class.

So the saviour bit of a women's refuge is that it provides refuge for women.

Yes race and money and disability etc are all relevant.

The situation is that DV services have had their funding slashed. The ones that were well established are losing financial support in favour of large companies with no experience who are cheap. The remit is to provide services to all. Established shelters are losing funding because they are not open to men.

In an ideal world there would be funding for services that catered to the particular situations risks needs etc of all groups.

But the current landscape is dire. Deaths of women in lockdown up. The police are hopeless.

Given that. Isn't any place to go better than none?

@buggerbuggery

"If women are volunteering their time to help with paperwork and social services and councel them... While they're staying at a friend's house... Then that's fine isn't it."

So is this the plan?

You know you can ask posie yourself, instead of questioning nicegerbil/the rest of us. Shes ok, she will answer, shes not a monster.

If this ^ is the plan, then that's fine with me and others. The immediate need to be safe will be covered and all those willing to volunteer (me and many many more women) will sort out the rest in due course. The first priority though is a safe space.

And to address some of your previous queries.
We dont all need money for what we propose to do, some of us have really big houses and can house more than one extra family, some of us have money to provide counselling and whatever else is needed, some of us actually have spare houses we can bring to use and finally because I'm not going to put this at risk by answering with detail, the money some of us had would have gone to a womens shelter, if a womans shelter could have answered they were single sex.
They could not, so I personally have quite a lot of money floating around waiting for a place to be used.

If, like Women's Place UK, you reject Posie's stated views on race and religion and feel uncomfortable about Posie's generalizations and misrepresentations of Muslim women then Women's Place UK is an excellent organisation to donate to.

They work with experts on the ground in the women's services sector such as Karen Ingala Smith and have run some fantastic seminars to raise awareness.

womansplaceuk.org

You could do that. Fundraise for them. Take the initiative.

Thanks for the suggestion, I already do this.

This doesn’t answer the question of why money would be better off going to a crowdfunder by Posie instead of to an existing, experienced provider offering the same thing though.

Any new charity wanting to start single sex services... How do they get their application through the charities commission?

You just put all the necessary things in place and then register. There's no barrier to setting up a charity for female only beneficiaries.

www.gov.uk/set-up-a-charity

The problem is not that refuges are charities, the problem is that they are reliant on local authority funding which comes with strings attached.

There was a good series on radio 4 a couple of years ago about this (not specific to women's services), it's still available here:

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09w87yd/episodes/player

As useful as Woman's Place is, I don't undermine their purpose, they don't actually run refuges, so for those in the know here I'd be grateful if anyone can list the refuges and shelters that are for women only and who have maintained that despite pressure from the council funding issue and elsewhere being piled on heavily.

If they are out there let us know about them. I don't need to know the addresses of the places where women hide in order to donate to the ones that do uphold single sex spaces.

I genuinely don't know any, other that Wight DASH (who I have donated to and will do again) and NIA.

Any others?

OhHolyJesus these are the ones WPUK encourage donations to:

Amina

Aurora New Dawn

Birmingham and Solihull Women's Aid

nia

RISE

Women's Resource Centre

Thanks Sapphos, I'll check them out.

I still find it shocking and disgusting quite honestly that women aren't safe in the assumption that a women's refuge is for women only.

I'll happily donate to these refuges and Posie's crowdfunder on payday. There's always room for one more! (Or in this case 100 more, one in every city I hope for one day.)