Posie putting her money where her mouth is. Lets do this.

[Fallingirl]

Posie is planning to re-build the women’s sector, starting with crowd funding for a women-only refuge.

"Whatever Posie says or does seems to bring out the self-appointed gatekeepers of feminism".

Otherwise known as women who have been abused and have experience. But you go off.

I have nothing but respect for Shonagh, Karen and you Jean and all the women in the sector doing what they can. I just don’t think Posie is lashing out at the women's movement or shooting at women working for women, if she was doing that then I would agree with you, but I don’t think she is. I agree she may not know very much about the sector, but others do and she isn't planning to run a refuge herself, at the end of the day if her actions lead to a new refuge surely that is a good thing? If it just leads to more publicity being brought to the situation surely thats’s also a good thing?

I think we can support those that are already doing this and new initiatives as well. This not disrespecting women in the sector already doing this

I agree with this.

But the immediate hostility towards a female only service being provided alongside now a heavy centrally funded swing to mixed sex women's provisions is not because those opposing it believe it is neither needed nor will be used. It's because it risks illustrating quite the opposite.
Nailed it I reckon.
I know people working in women’s services. Yes, they are dedicated, yes, they have a ton of experience, yes, they care. But they are also mealy mouthed about “ inclusion” and very much part of a system that treats women as “vulnerable service users” with no actual voice rather than as “us”. If women in the refuge sector are frightened to speak out in fear of losing funding, then I am happy to support those who will speak out, as loudly and rudely possible.

@Datun

Shonagh says that many organisations are frightened to speak out. If they are providing single sex spaces, they're doing it quietly, they don't want to draw attention to themselves in case they're targeted.

And everybody understands that tactic. It's a primary means of control.

Posie's forte is publicity, and drawing attention to the censorship and intimidation of women.

She is now drawing attention to the acquisition of such a space and is publicly and loudly making it single sex.

If she pulls it off, I'm still not sure how that is framed as a disadvantage.

I agree with this. People can be effectively gagged by the hold those in positions of power have over them. They've had it all their own way and kept everything in the shadows while they have silenced girls/women and dismantled girls/women's rights. Rights to safety and fairness. Only the tales from those who want to damage them being heard and promoted.

So, it is wonderful that some women are very talented in publicity. Let those who can speak out, shout it from the rooftops. Out of the shadows and comfort of those who don't give a toss effecting such harm.

"Whatever Posie says or does seems to bring out the self-appointed gatekeepers of feminism".

Otherwise known as women who have been abused and have experience. But you go off.

It's happened to many many women. Not just the self appointed gate keepers of feminism. And they too:

1)Have a right to speak

2)Set up services if they so wish.

Agree Erikrie
And let’s not forget not all women are open about past abuse. Most of my friends have no idea and I had broken bones. Ridiculous to classify women according to levels of abuse anyway though. We are all women, the end.

The resistance to what Posie is proposing to do seems to come from an intense dislike of her personally and not her aims. If Posie gets this off the ground and women, like the posters referenced on here who (i) put down the phone when confronted by a male voice answering at the refuge and (ii) who returned to their abuser because they could not cope being in the space with men, find safety and sanctuary in a completely single sex women only space then nothing but good can come of that.

IfNot Absolutely.

@IfNot

But the immediate hostility towards a female only service being provided alongside now a heavy centrally funded swing to mixed sex women's provisions is not because those opposing it believe it is neither needed nor will be used. It's because it risks illustrating quite the opposite. Nailed it I reckon. I know people working in women’s services. Yes, they are dedicated, yes, they have a ton of experience, yes, they care. But they are also mealy mouthed about “ inclusion” and very much part of a system that treats women as “vulnerable service users” with no actual voice rather than as “us”. If women in the refuge sector are frightened to speak out in fear of losing funding, then I am happy to support those who will speak out, as loudly and rudely possible.

I'm sorry to post as I don't want to upset women working to help in sector and risking my life by making them angry as even less chance of help and somewhere safe to go but this is what happened to me. Not all of them and always be so grateful to amazing kind lovely people who helped me and who doing amazing work but some don't like you or want to help you if you don't fit their stereotype of victim who doesn't have voice. I have so much problems and loss confidence and live in so much fear but still know own mind and needed to be in control of my life and be involved in decisions and treated like an equal not naughty child who needs to do what you're told because roof over head. Can't swap one controlling environment for another. I'm so grateful for the kind women working in sector but lots set up on idea all victims aren't equals and also stereotypes of victims.

Sorry not really to with trans but any new service for women is good as not all help every victim and not enough support or funding so more is good especially if not replying on local funding as often limits support to local women but we need to flee areas often.

I'll never be safe now because of posting so they won't help me definitely now but I hope they understand I'm not saying it's most of them and some amazing kind wonderful ones. It's not always good though and depends who answers and maybe it's just them taking a dislike to my voice but they dont all move heaven and earth in the middle of the night to help. I've had amazing kind ones who maybe kept me from immediate suicide but other times when ready to leave, called in night and told to call back daytime or call police and it's all down to me to find myself anywhere. They give you phone numbers to call yourself of refuges to try. Lots straight to voicemail and others like local authorities question why you chose their area even though you didn't and just called numbers given of where free spaces are. Many so lovely so please don't get upset or angry as not all services and know it's often because not enough funding but upsetting when people think it's all ok because it isn't and that's why women like me get murdered or suicide.

When they tell you to just go to police apart from lots of difficulties with that, police can only take you to what's available. Nothing to do with trans. It's openly mixed sex hostels and shared accommodation. Same for after refuges. Shared is bad enough itself after years of trauma and violence because desperate need for privacy and dignity of own safe space. I'm sorry don't want to upset people and I guess maybe if there's children more is done to immediately move women I don't know. Not all trauma informed counselling offered as funding cuts so closed waiting lists but obviously not fault of services but any new services especially if not replying on local funding so available nationally really good as more options for people like me maybe. Really needed services for older or disabilities but that won't happen as hardly anyone cares but at least more places is good just to have more options so not as rival but as extra.

I hope you're ok nosafeguardingadults

There should be single sex spaces and support for all women that need it. I hope you find some peace

The £150k as I understand it is being used to fund a building. So how will it run? What about funding for staff, utilities, council tax?

Gosh, yes, you're quite right. All those years when I was dating, I had to rip everyone's clothes off before I could decide who to flirt with

God this made me laugh, as is stated all the fucking time, we know how to tell men from women. It's not difficult, weve been doing this since we were young and men don't try to hide that they are men, even transwomen.

It's not hatred to want single sex space, just mainly unworkable in our current set up

It was working just fine until recently, you do know that women set up refuges for women right, if we had wanted to set up mixed sex refuges we bloody would have done that.
And more to the point, with or without posie the conversations are happening about going underground and being very very discreet about who is let in and going back to the basics and letting women into our homes again, just like in the beginning. And no one can prevent that and no one who isnt adult human female will be able to go to court and force us to take them, because itll be our home where we get to say who sets foot over the threshold.

And more to the point, with or without posie the conversations are happening about going underground and being very very discreet about who is let in and going back to the basics

Like lesbian groups have been forced to do.

The thing will be that in order to avoid political capture and the council funding games of 'unless you do x you don't qualify and you'll go under/have to sack your staff/etc etc' it will be forced to avoid all parts of such developed regulation. The good and the negative. It won't have access to the good policies and back ups, it won't be regulated, because it can't be. Because once it is, the problems are straight back for female only set ups.

This is absolutely something that needs illustrating: the costs and downsides of women being forced to the point of having to set up new services wholly outside of a framework so taken over that it's no longer woman-friendly. But by doing so, it may be able to meet the needs of some women whose needs aren't met by the current existing services.

@kindofcoping

The £150k as I understand it is being used to fund a building. So how will it run? What about funding for staff, utilities, council tax?

I think PP has been talking about £500k so I'm sure the £150k is just to get started.

It is a huge financial undertaking, hence the high figure, with staff costs and overheads. As PP isn't stupid I'm sure she has through all about this and did so before announcing her plans. As has been said in her videos and on this thread, she has been in touch with women who are connected to existing refuges so even if she doesn't know what she is talking about she knows people who do.

£500k is not a huge amount to run a refuge. It means £350k running costs a year, which is not high. But it is a lot to raise every year. They will have women's housing benefit towards running costs.
I hope it works out, but I know how hard it is to run a project like this and attract enough funding. Without Local Authority support, this is very tough.
And it is not comparable to when refuges started. Read up about that time. Refuges had women and children living in very overcrowded squat like accommodation, and was run by mainly volunteers.

@nosafeguardingadults There are people in refuges who care about women and are motivated by feminism. There are others for whom it is just a job.

@Artichokeleaves

And more to the point, with or without posie the conversations are happening about going underground and being very very discreet about who is let in and going back to the basics

Like lesbian groups have been forced to do.

The thing will be that in order to avoid political capture and the council funding games of 'unless you do x you don't qualify and you'll go under/have to sack your staff/etc etc' it will be forced to avoid all parts of such developed regulation. The good and the negative. It won't have access to the good policies and back ups, it won't be regulated, because it can't be. Because once it is, the problems are straight back for female only set ups.

This is absolutely something that needs illustrating: the costs and downsides of women being forced to the point of having to set up new services wholly outside of a framework so taken over that it's no longer woman-friendly. But by doing so, it may be able to meet the needs of some women whose needs aren't met by the current existing services.

I completely agree, there are many downsides to going "in house" the first being no regulation. But the conversations that are happening (with me anyways I'm sure others are having broader conversations) is the immediate need to get women safe first. Once that is done then follow on will need to be arranged. I dont know how, but it will be done. We are still 51%of the population and plenty of us care enough to stick two fingers up to the current set up and go and do it ourselves. And i want to say more but I'll get deleted and give away too much.

There have been lots of informal lesbian groups that have continued to exclude trans. That is not unusual. But these are advertised informal groups that are self-funding.

Well, Posie, what a brave, bold and forward thinking action.

We're lucky to have you standing up and speaking out for women.

Thank you.

@kindofcoping

There have been lots of informal lesbian groups that have continued to exclude trans. That is not unusual. But these are advertised informal groups that are self-funding.

It is the case that a number of lesbian groups have stopped advertising and begun to run underground having found that accepting male born people into a lesbian group affected the group beyond continuing to serve the needs of the female people they set up for. Women's health groups have also been affected, including groups that discuss only illnesses and disabilities that affect those with female biology, and forced to close and then reopen off grid to avoid being targeted by those who name female only spaces as 'excluding' regardless of the impact on or needs of those female people.

It doesn't help to deny or disguise that this happens. Inclusion is about meeting all needs in a variety of ways.

I do not know any that have stopped advertising.

This is a really interesting thread. I've had to use women's services in the past and I'm really trying to envision Posie's project.

I just can't picture being at my most vulnerable and heading off to her Adult Human Female Centre to get help. I would imagine the space to be somewhat like Posie herself, angry and politically charged. I'm not convinced the service users would benefit from it as much as Posie would.

Anyway, good luck to her. If it helps some women then it can't be a bad thing.

If you want to pretend the women's sector is like Millie Tant in Viz, crack on.
Women built it from nothing, with no support. We dont expect everyone will be cheering version 2.0 on either.

I would imagine the space to be somewhat like Posie herself, angry and politically charged.

She's not angry as a person, just angry at what is happening.