I'm so f****** proud of myself.

[ItsANiceDayForAFeministRant]

By nature, I am a quiet person who avoids confrontation and silentlyds seethes instead. Today I stood up for myself. I am so fucking proud, and adrenaline filled! I'm currently editing a book for a man that I was introduced to. The way he refers to women throughout is disgusting, they are "good lays," and described only by if they are old and disgusting or young and sexy. He only ever calls them girls regardless of age.

In the first scene where only girls are talking, they sit around and talk about how fit the men are, how big their penises are. And for the worst bit that really fucking triggered me - he narrates how an adult male teacher gets a hard on and has a wank because a teenage pupil teased him. (Obviously it's the little slags fault...)

Every other paragraph is another assault on women. And pathetically, it got to the point I was almost in tears to be completely honest. The men in my life are feminists too, men who appreciate and support women. So to an extent I forgot that for some men, this really is how they view us. "Pieces of skirt" to chase. I gently suggested that we change this conversation to something more substantial and told him about the Bechdel test.

He said, and I quote "I wanted the women's chat to be irrelevant just like in real life." At this point, I don't know what came over me. But I absolutely let it rip on him, I was direct, honest and said exactly what I wanted to. I'm still shaking now, and I just wanted to share this. Because I really am, so fucking proud of myself today.

[Puntastic]

@Flapjak

Not sure i agree with this, it may be sexist and puerile but isnt he entitled to write that within context of free speech. I feel it is broaching into terrority of where writers have to be audited to erase anything that could be offensive? What about writers like irvine welsh, lots of offensive characters in that and liberal use of misogynistic terminology.

He can write whatever he likes, he just can't expect it to sell.

[ItsLateHumpty]

That was a really well thought-out, balanced, piece of constructive criticism you gave him.

I think you’ve actually really tried to help him, and if reacts in the way I’m guessing he’s going to, you’d be doing yourself a favour walking away, and no one could tell you you’d been petty, or ‘mean’.

TL;DR that was one very polite “let it rip” OP, and I’d be proud of me too if I could remain as civil. for you.

[siestalady]

well done OP, he sounds hideous. Shamelessly placemarking to see his response

[ChazsBrilliantAttitude]

Flapjak characters can be arseholes but it doesn’t mean the writer has to be one too. Plenty of great writers have created unpleasant characters without letting that unpleasantness set the tone for the book. Misogynistic characters are fine and realistic but a misogynistic book is hopefully unpublishable.

[JediGnot]

I'm struggling to see who the publisher is? Do they specialize in publishing books by ex-football hooligans a z-list celebrities? Is this a book that is expected to sell to the the blokes 5,000 fans and everyone know it has NOTHING of literary value in it?

Obviously I don't want or need to know OPs financial position, but I hope she has sufficient money to avoid dealing with the publisher in future.

[ItsANiceDayForAFeministRant]

@ItsLateHumpty thank you so much! And one back at you
For me this was DEFINITELY letting it rip, my normal reaction would be to smile and nod politely, then go home and moan to my partner, so I really am proud!

I did try to remain professional, and appeal to what motivates him rather than just saying it's offensive, as I suspect that he knows it is but doesn't particularly care!

[Bourbonandcoke]

It is just a book and some women do talk like this. You are very naive.

[ItsANiceDayForAFeministRant]

@ChazsBrilliantAttitude

Flapjak characters can be arseholes but it doesn’t mean the writer has to be one too. Plenty of great writers have created unpleasant characters without letting that unpleasantness set the tone for the book. Misogynistic characters are fine and realistic but a misogynistic book is hopefully unpublishable.

@ChazsBrilliantAttitude I couldn't have phrased it better myself. Absolutely this.

@siestalady honestly can't wait for his reply I feel a bit naughty. I will definitely update as soon as he bloody gets back to me!

@JediGnot this made me laugh, so he's just a normal bloke trying to get his book published, he has tried to self-publish in the past. He's going to some kind of festival to approach some and ask them to publish his book. He knows my family and knows that I studied English literature at uni so he has asked me to edit for him. I would be so surprised if any publishers do go along with it!

[ItsANiceDayForAFeministRant]

@Bourbonandcoke

It is just a book and some women do talk like this. You are very naive.

@Bourbonandcoke yes of course they do, that's why I said to him yes some women ARE crude. The only reason that I think it is a problem is because it is the first, and one of the only scenes that the women talk in the novel. He said that he wants it to appeal to women, I was straight with him and told him that it doesn't appeal to a general female audience.

[Holly60]

You are nicer than I would have been. My email to him might have read: ‘this novel is AMAZING! My only suggestion would be that you make the women MORE vacuous, and include even more blatant homophobia. Also, I’ll buy you a drink when you get a publisher, because you definitely will….’

[MarkRuffaloCrumble]

Agree that letting rip implied something much less constructive along the lines of “I’m not touching this misogynistic pile of shit with a barge pole and would rather starve than take money for editing such a vile and pathetic piece of writing. Shove it up your arse” type of thing!! Yours was very measured and polite so if he does anything other than consider your viewpoint I’d assume he’s just trolling - either you or the potential readers - hoping he can get some publicity by writing this absolute pile of wank.

[IntermittentParps]

I'm an editorial freelancer and don't generally take on independent authors unless I've seen a good sample of the work, if not the whole thing, in advance; they tend to be independent because no publisher or agent would touch their work with a bargepole.

OP, did you have an idea in advance of what this text would be like?

[ItsANiceDayForAFeministRant]

@IntermittentParps

I'm an editorial freelancer and don't generally take on independent authors unless I've seen a good sample of the work, if not the whole thing, in advance; they tend to be independent because no publisher or agent would touch their work with a bargepole.

OP, did you have an idea in advance of what this text would be like?

@IntermittentParps sorry, I perhaps should have made it more clear, editing is not my day job at all! I studied English literature at university so he asked me to help him and has offered me money to do it. I'm actually still on maternity leave at the moment! But no, I had no idea what it was about. The way it was described to me was a "crime thriller" so I was pretty excited, I love a good murder book! As it's gone on I've just become more and more irritated, bored and creeped out by some of the odd stuff in it.

[ItsANiceDayForAFeministRant]

@MarkRuffaloCrumble @Holly60 your replies cracked me up, I would absolutely take inspiration from these if I thought that I would never have to see him in real life

[MarkRuffaloCrumble]

BTW not dismissing how good you should feel for calling him out. It’s too easy to stand back and let things slide, so saying anything - no matter how polite (and in some ways, politer is better as he can’t dismiss it as being hysterical feminism!) is a great thing and you should be proud.

[IntermittentParps]

I see, OP.
But anyway, yes, it sounds terrible and I can see why he's self-publishing! It's the downside of things like Amazon Direct –not enough quality control.

[Umpteenthiteration]

Are you sure he's not getting some enjoyment from having you edit this work?

[ItsANiceDayForAFeministRant]

@MarkRuffaloCrumble thank you, I absolutely am! It took a lot for me to say something. This is going to be one of those things that I lay in bed at night thinking about

@Umpteenthiteration as I briefly mentioned earlier, this thought HAS crossed my mind. There is a long scene which goes into a lot of detailed description about one character having a wank, and a really disturbing rape scene. But what made me think that perhaps he is enjoying this is when he specifically said to me that he wants me to work on (and add in my own writing) to the lesbian sex-scene because he wants it to appeal to women... this had my heckles up a little bit

[Lottapianos]

He sounds like someone I would want to run a mile from

[IntermittentParps]

he specifically said to me that he wants me to work on (and add in my own writing) to the lesbian sex-scene because he wants it to appeal to women
Sorry but why have you not told him by now in no uncertain terms where to stuff his little wank fantasy I mean novel?

[Umpteenthiteration]

ItsANiceDayForAFeministRant I would be very wary. He sounds all sorts of wrong. I think I'd be asking for advance payment and an agreed end time (if you haven't already agreed this).

[ItsANiceDayForAFeministRant]

@IntermittentParps

he specifically said to me that he wants me to work on (and add in my own writing) to the lesbian sex-scene because he wants it to appeal to women
Sorry but why have you not told him by now in no uncertain terms where to stuff his little wank fantasy I mean novel?

@IntermittentParps don't worry, I'm not that naïve! I told him that I wouldn't feel comfortable expanding on it but am happy to just edit it. plus, the cheeky bastard is paying me to edit, not write!!

[ScreamingMeMe]

Wow he sounds like a real piece of work!

Well done, OP.

[IntermittentParps]

Well, I meant ditch the project, rather than just not do your own writing...! Personally I wouldn't edit something like that.

[Ivebeeninlockdowntoolong]

@Umpteenthiteration

Are you sure he's not getting some enjoyment from having you edit this work?

I wonder also if he is getting his bollocks off by you editing his work.

OP, you can see that I find your situation rather disturbing. What do you think you're doing, going along with this? Is the money really that good and this is the sole motivation? Or do you feel you "owe" him something as he is a family friend?

Frankly I don't understand why you don't tell him to shove his piece of work right up his arse and call him out for being such a sad wanker.