I'm so f****** proud of myself.

[ItsANiceDayForAFeministRant]

By nature, I am a quiet person who avoids confrontation and silentlyds seethes instead. Today I stood up for myself. I am so fucking proud, and adrenaline filled! I'm currently editing a book for a man that I was introduced to. The way he refers to women throughout is disgusting, they are "good lays," and described only by if they are old and disgusting or young and sexy. He only ever calls them girls regardless of age.

In the first scene where only girls are talking, they sit around and talk about how fit the men are, how big their penises are. And for the worst bit that really fucking triggered me - he narrates how an adult male teacher gets a hard on and has a wank because a teenage pupil teased him. (Obviously it's the little slags fault...)

Every other paragraph is another assault on women. And pathetically, it got to the point I was almost in tears to be completely honest. The men in my life are feminists too, men who appreciate and support women. So to an extent I forgot that for some men, this really is how they view us. "Pieces of skirt" to chase. I gently suggested that we change this conversation to something more substantial and told him about the Bechdel test.

He said, and I quote "I wanted the women's chat to be irrelevant just like in real life." At this point, I don't know what came over me. But I absolutely let it rip on him, I was direct, honest and said exactly what I wanted to. I'm still shaking now, and I just wanted to share this. Because I really am, so fucking proud of myself today.

[HeadIsFucked]

Good for you OP. It always feels quite good to let it rip at these dickheads..you were definitely a lot more polite than I would have been though!

[TheMarzipanDildo]

@Flapjak

Not sure i agree with this, it may be sexist and puerile but isnt he entitled to write that within context of free speech. I feel it is broaching into terrority of where writers have to be audited to erase anything that could be offensive? What about writers like irvine welsh, lots of offensive characters in that and liberal use of misogynistic terminology.

Nah, he hired an editor. He can write whatever shit he wants but he can’t expect to be told by the person he’s paying to check it that it’s all good.

[Thelnebriati]

Or just don't put your name to this type of work at all. Let him publish a load of misogynistic tosh instead of being his paid nanny.

[moofolk]

It sounds like you've done well @ItsANiceDayForAFeministRant, has he responded?

What did he say?

Have you thought of editing it so well that you remove all misogynistic aspects. It sounds like that would leave him with very few words and send a very strong message

[Holothane]

A few years ago my stepmom was still alive I went over to see her in her new home her brother was there he treated women as things for mans bidding he soon started the drivel I told him “Not exactly James Bond are you? When you’ve got a cock as big as your mouth you’ll have something to crow about” well done who the hell do they they think are these creeps.

[pigeonpies]

Given him back the fee ( minus hours you've already worked) and be done with it

[pigeonpies]

I'm happy that you feel you've given him the riot act, but please don't be weak by only considering not working on it.

Position yourself a million miles away from this man and his book, don't just consider it.

[Cowbells]

@HollowTalk

I didn't think any literary festivals were running live at the moment. Is he pitching his book to agents?

There are some festivals online, so if someone had a F2F with an agent booked, presumably it would be done on Zoom.

[CharlieParley]

@Thelnebriati

I don't understand how contracts work in this industry, but in similar industries you state upfront that you reserve the right to refuse work, and don't handle work that is racist or sexist.
Its standard to do this, and not an issue. There are probably sample open source contracts available online.

I've been freelancing for ten years and my contracts are usually no more than agreement about the work reached via email or phone. I've had one client sting me at the very beginning, and that was when I did have a proper contract. Which turned out to be unenforceable, given the sum involved and that he lived in a different country.

Also, I don't commit until I know what I'm asked to do, so I weed out the obviously unacceptable early on. And I have no problem walking away if an insurmountable issue arises after starting. Most often though, I solve the problem of client incompatibility by finishing the agreed work and then rejecting requests for more.

[Thelnebriati]

I don't understand how contracts work in this industry, but in similar industries you state upfront that you reserve the right to refuse work, and don't handle work that is racist or sexist.
Its standard to do this, and not an issue. There are probably sample open source contracts available online.

[HollowTalk]

I didn't think any literary festivals were running live at the moment. Is he pitching his book to agents?

[RedDogsBeg]

Good for you, OP, here's to you writing a best seller!

[Masdintle]

Let us know how he gets on on Saturday

[WhatMattersMost]

He is deriving some form of enjoyment/pay out from doing this to you. I would have refunded him the fee and told him I would no longer be working with him for personal readings, deadline be damned. Anything less than that would, to me, feel like a form of collusion.

[ItsLateHumpty]

Well done OP - you’ve done yourself proud and learnt a lot about female socialisation - it’s a bitch and very hard to overcome, so well done on finding your voice although I think a 🥂 may be better 😉

[ItsANiceDayForAFeministRant]

Thank you all so much. I absolutely not be editing any more of his "work" @RedDogsBeg. He is clearly wanting me to start writing it for him, and when I eventually get around to writing my own book it won't be one narrated to shit on women 🙄 as I said, I would be incredibly surprised if he has any success with this on Saturday. Ignoring the sexist issues, it's still quite a poorly written and plot starved book imo. But if someone does take it on, I'll congratulate him and wash my hands of any future involvement.

[RedDogsBeg]

@ItsANiceDayForAFeministRant I can understand you feel you have a sense of duty to finish what you have been paid for but please disengage afterwards, I expect this man will be wanting you to write sex scenes next, particularly those involving two women. His writing has shown you clearly who he is and how he views women, believe it.

[heathspeedwell]

You have done this peculiar man a massive favour.

I hope it helps him to reconsider not just his (poor) writing, but his approach to life in general.

Thank goodness he got an editor like you!

[Oilofolives]

Ah understandable to finish it, if he has paid and the deadline is so close.

Well done for finding your voice!

[Babygotblueyes]

I'm proud of you too!!!!!!!!

[ItsANiceDayForAFeministRant]

@Oilofolives thank you for the advice. He has already paid me, so I will do carry on editing for him until Saturday when he is taking it to his festival thing. I've already told him that I won't be adding to the scenes, and that I am just correcting spelling and checking the grammar. As he has already paid I think it's only fair that I finish the job! But I will use this as a lesson for the future, ask to read first and definitely stand up for myself more! It feels great.

[Oilofolives]

I don’t know how much he is paying you but I would stop now. If you were self employed/freelance anything you would have already run a mile from this client.

He doesn’t respect women (see the book) so I don’t know why you think he respects you.

His response isn’t that he respects you -it’s that he’s happy that he’s got you on board, and possibly that he can hook you on for longer. He’s not interested in professional boundaries (the job is evolving from editing to writing and he is interested in you adding to the sex scenes).

What you have done re message is great: well done for putting your foot down. But you are still stuck dealing with someone who is well across professional lines. If he hasn’t already paid, I bet it won’t be forthcoming quickly/ easily/ unless you promise to spend more time on this. You don’t owe him anything - it’s a job not a favour.

[ItsANiceDayForAFeministRant]

Oops yes name change fail 😂 yes, I would describe the men in my personal life as feminists, I'm picky about who I spend time with! And quite a recluse so fortunately for me, I'm not around men like this one much.

@RedDogsBeg you're right, I've never noticed how easy I am to win over!! This has definitely opened my eyes. I think I weirdly feel grateful, because I wasn't expecting him to listen or take on board what I said, so I was pleasantly surprised by his response. I am aware that this is ridiculous!

Thank you everyone for your responses, I feel justified and empowered! It's the first time I have properly stood up for myself in this kind of situation, and I'll be sure to keep it up! Luckily there is only two more days left to work on it, so I will finish what we agreed on.

He has mentioned in the past that he wants to do a trilogy, but his editor sure as shit isn't going to be me!

[ConcreteUnderpants]

Well done!!
Difficult with a friend of the family, so even more well done.

Have to say before you posted it, I could almost feel a grubby little completely irrelevant lesbian scene coming on.
Maybe I’m psychic or maybe just worn down and used to these creepy misogynistic types.

[MrsSquirrel]

I also agree with pp, get out and move on with your life.

The fact that he would even imagine a scene where a teacher gets aroused and masturbates over a female pupil tells you exactly what kind of person he is. Never mind all the other sexist bullshit.

You are under no obligation to this man, walk away.