Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Should Muslim women be forced to give beauty treatments to males?

329 replies

HecatesCatsInFancyHats · 22/05/2021 08:59

"Unisex salon stand by their decision to REJECT a gender-fluid singer from a nail appointment - because they thought they were 'a man' so Muslim beautician objected"

www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-9601197/Nail-salon-refuse-manicure-gender-fluid-singer-beautician-Muslim.html

OP posts:
TheOnlyLivingBoyInNewCross · 22/05/2021 14:25

He/she/they sound an utter wanker, imho.

toffeebutterpopcorn · 22/05/2021 14:25

I worked as a therapist - so 1-2-1 in a small basement room of a clinic. I had absolute control over who I saw and who I didn’t (this was a while back so I chose not to treat certain areas, not by sex). The rule was - if you felt uneasy, keep the door open or ask for a ‘trainee’ (another therapist or someone from reception) to sit in the room during treatment.

Thankfully I only ever had one man who made me feel uneasy (because he was an absolute story teller extraordinaire and seems to try to shock me, which he didn’t).

WoolOfBat · 22/05/2021 14:26

I am with you completely alfonso. Any man is allowed to say no to touching anyone, man or woman. And to refuse to have sex with them. I cannot believe that this has to be said Confused

CuriousaboutSamphire · 22/05/2021 14:26

What if he believes he's female? But he specifically does not! He 'identifies' as 'he/she/them' So who the hell will now which is correct at any given moment?

From the article, the website states that massage appointments are for females only. It does not specify anything about nails. But the speicific woman who would have been dealing with him said no... and has every right to do so! Anyone with an ounce of self awareness would have been annoyed, registered their annoyance and moved on!

It was nails, not life saving surgery, FFS!

osbertthesyrianhamster · 22/05/2021 14:26

No, no one should be forced to give beauty treatments to someone they don't want to.

toffeebutterpopcorn · 22/05/2021 14:27

Female - not a woman. They are treating bodies not minds/souls/emotions...

Claphands · 22/05/2021 14:27

@bonfireheart

It seems like he/she/they booked using Treatwell. I have used treatwell lots of times. It clearly states when a service is for women only. When you click to pay it reminds you again "x beautician only does x treatment on women" and they you pay if you wish to proceed. Which means he/she/they will have known before booking so makes me wonder... also considering their social media profile and how important their appearance to them, am surprised he/she/they were booking to get their nails done in a salon they didn't know about, had been to before and tbh looks a bit grubby from the pics. Again makes me wonder if this was done on purpose... why when their name is Andrea would salon ring to confirm their gender? Am assuming he/she/they did something to alert them to their gender on purpose...
Exactly what I thought too!
CuriousaboutSamphire · 22/05/2021 14:29

Ooh! Yes! Further poking round does indeed show that the salon does say "ladiesonly" when you try to book.

And Andrea is he/him/his in his own PR product!

So... what was he really trying to do here? The Full Yaniv?

LaBellina · 22/05/2021 14:31

Well legally nobody can be forced to touch another person if they don’t want to, so there is no ‘case’ other then another entitled male wanker trying to ‘cancel’ someone that doesn’t agree with their views.

Zinco · 22/05/2021 14:33

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

allmywhat · 22/05/2021 14:34

Am assuming he/she/they did something to alert them to their gender on purpose...

I'd guess they realised it was an ambiguous name and Googled he/she/they. Why wouldn't he take the opportunity to throw an in-person tantrum at being refused, perhaps while filming the beautician for maximum social media bullying opportunities?

Artichokeleaves · 22/05/2021 14:44

Why do people on Mumsnet continually try to insist that Muslim women must follow the most extreme patriarchal interpretations of Islam?

They don't. They point out that some Muslim women do.

It's rather like the whole 'most women have no problem using mixed sex toilets' thing. The point is that some women do. And those women are the women most disadvantaged by the forced mixed sex agenda that benefits people born male. Those women matter too.

nauticant · 22/05/2021 14:44

An interesting set of replies to the Treatwell platform:

twitter.com/Treatwelluk/status/1395292848728195075

CuriousaboutSamphire · 22/05/2021 14:45

Why do people on Mumsnet continually try to insist that Muslim women must follow the most extreme patriarchal interpretations of Islam? Except we don't!

We just accpet that some Muslim women do... and should be supported in that!

Shehasadiamondinthesky · 22/05/2021 14:51

Nobody should be forced to touch anybody if they feel uncomfortable doing so. Not just muslims, anybody.
I refuse to treat any male in my clinic who is sexually abusive towards me, they lose that right when they decide to talk dirty to me, a male colleague takes over and they are booked with a male colleague for ever after.
Likewise my male colleagues don't do home visits on their own to lone women, it puts them at great risk of being accused of something.
My male GP always has a nurse chaperone if he is doing intimate examinations on women.
if the salon is women only they should not be forced to touch anyone with a penis no matter what "gender" they think they are. Find a salon that does both.

AlfonsoTheTerrible · 22/05/2021 14:53

Why do people on Mumsnet continually try to insist that Muslim women must follow the most extreme patriarchal interpretations of Islam?

Hmm. I'm a person. I'm on MN. I don't continually try to insist that Muslim women must follow the most extreme patriarchal interpretations of Islam. I've lived in various Middle Eastern countries, studied Arabic and Islam at university and tend to keep my ideas on those topics to myself.

deleteasappropriate · 22/05/2021 14:54

Absolutely not! This is the thin end of the wedge - in no time at all they'll be demanding a lady back, crack and sack!

AlfonsoTheTerrible · 22/05/2021 14:57

I'm not on Twitter so I can't read the replies but Mr Di Giovanni is incorrect when he states "Being discriminated against for my identity is an actual CRIME".

Gender identity is not a protected characteristic, Mr Di Giovanni.

And before anyone reports me for misgendering Mr Di Giovanni he refers to himself as male on his web site. If I referred to him as "they" I would be misgendering him.

MrsKeats · 22/05/2021 14:58

Of course not

JediGnot · 22/05/2021 15:01

@Nancylovesthecock

Yes it is. If the person providing the personal service has a reason for not wanting to. No person is obliged to touch another in ANY CAPACITY for ANY REASON.
By that logic a nightclub can be whites-only because the bouncers all refuse to touch black potential customers, and if they can't be searched they can't come in. I disagree completely.

I also have big reservation about religious exemptions. For one, if you have religious objections, then find a job compatible with your religion. For two, your religion doesn't trump mine, and my religion - gnotism - obliges me to spit in the face of anyone who claims that lesbians can have penises. And I don't believe that deluded fools should be subject to disgusting and illegal behaviour just because my religion - which is somewhat nasty in some respects, I don't agree with all of it - tells me I should do disgusting and illegal things to deluded misogynist homophobes.

In my view it is perfectly reasonable to have single sex spaces and services.

[Not relevant to the case in question] In my view if people have a religious objection to touching men, they should not be working in a job offering a touch based service to everyone. The right of someone not to be discriminated against when they respond to a company offering mixed services trumps the right of a worker to have a job that they can't do without discriminating.

To be clear - either company should offer services to all and employ the right people, or the company should offer sex-based services and then they are able to employ people who will only touch women. It seems this company did the latter.

AMillionMilesAway · 22/05/2021 15:06

All I really needed to read was
Should Muslim women be forced-
Nope. Muslim women nobody should be forced to do anything.
But not doing some things may well cost you your job.

AlfonsoTheTerrible · 22/05/2021 15:08

By that logic a nightclub can be whites-only because the bouncers all refuse to touch black potential customers, and if they can't be searched they can't come in. I disagree completely.

Bouncers provide security services, not personal services, for a venue. A better analogy would be a bodyguard but even that would have grey areas, I think.

KaptainKaveman · 22/05/2021 15:14

Yaniv mark 2.

It's all about ATTENTION, LOOK AT MEEEEEEE WAAAAH.

Leave women alone and don't force them to put their hands on you if they don't want to.

JediGnot · 22/05/2021 15:14

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

JediGnot · 22/05/2021 15:15

@AlfonsoTheTerrible

By that logic a nightclub can be whites-only because the bouncers all refuse to touch black potential customers, and if they can't be searched they can't come in. I disagree completely.

Bouncers provide security services, not personal services, for a venue. A better analogy would be a bodyguard but even that would have grey areas, I think.

I was just trying to make the point that if workers are allowed to deny service to anyone for any reason it makes a mockery of all discrimination laws, including those protecting women and ethnic minorities.
Swipe left for the next trending thread