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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

I've turned my husband and he's turned his employer

89 replies

Umpteenthiteration · 21/05/2021 07:43

I've been banging on for the past three years or so about what is happening with gender ideology and how damaging it is to conflate sex and gender (whatever the heck 'gender' is). Husband has nodded along and make positive noises but didn't really seem to get it. But this morning he informed me that having been involved in a consultation at work about proposed plans for a diversity and inclusion day he made it clear that they needed to replace 'gender' with 'sex' as they were two completely different things. We're talking a major global organisation here and he was giving feedback at country-level. Go him!

The conversations we have with people do make a difference.
He's been radicalised by Mumsnet by proxy.

As you were Grin

OP posts:
Leafstamp · 21/05/2021 18:15

I'm loving these stories, we should definitely have a monthly thread along these line. Here's mine from April:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4231811-The-reach-of-speaking-up-The-ripple-effect

Umpteenthiteration · 21/05/2021 20:41

@Leafstamp thanks for posting your thread. I'm just taking look now.

All these amazing stores from other posters Flowers

OP posts:
DdraigGoch · 21/05/2021 23:44

Both DH and DS, in the course of business, spent most of Tuesday in the company of a transwoman of mature years, who DH described as lovely and really helpful. Apparently she told my DS that "I wish the woke generation - that's your generation - would just go back to sleep!" and poked her finger at him just for good measure.
That's the sad thing though, isn't it? The old-school TWs were generally fine, respectful of boundaries etc. Then this generation came along, turned it into an all-encompassing crusade and will cause a societal backlash which will hurt the old-school respectful TWs.

SmokedDuck · 22/05/2021 01:34

Sometimes people not getting riled up doesn't mean they don't "get it" either. They may just be placid people in the general run of things. It doesn't mean they won't step up when there it comes up in their life.

So I don't think people should necessarily feel discouraged when someone seems to take it in without a lot of commentary.

Wanderingstars4238 · 22/05/2021 03:24

A lot of people really don't want to go along with TWAW but feel guilty if they don't. All they need is someone to give them good reasons why their gut was right all along.

BluePorchAwning · 22/05/2021 06:47

When I first became enlightened, I was very much "OMG, you won't believe this..." but now I wait and am more subtle in my approach. Everyone is coming from a different place regarding their knowledge and perception of this issue so I tread carefully. At work I tend to throw in a few shockers like "rapists in women's prisons" as part of the general chit-chat. We were discussing women's football once so I innocently commented that most of the Iranian team were men. One of the younger members of staff immediately piped up "I haven't got a problem with that". I replied "unless you were a woman who lost your place on the team" to which he replied "er, um, er, um, er yes, you've got a point there". Smile

sashh · 22/05/2021 07:16

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Nonmaquillee · 22/05/2021 07:43

I was browsing in a well-known bookshop a few days ago. A woman roughly my age - a member of staff - approached me and asked me if I had read a particular book that was on the table (perhaps it’s part of her job to find out what customers are currently reading?). We chatted for a few minutes - she was obviously really knowledgeable - and then she gestured towards a table with a big pile of the same book and said:

Have you read this one? It won the Women’s Prize for Fiction recently?

Me: No, and I am not interested in reading it - it was written by a man (NB: the shop isn’t very busy but I have raised my voice a little so others can hear). The prize should have gone to a female writer.

Her: (looks taken aback and obviously not sure what to say) says nothing

Me: (keeping voice slightly raised and enunciating very clearly) I mention: men in women’s spaces/toilets/changing rooms (gesturing at my DDs) and I don’t want my daughters to go into a public toilet to find a man in there just because he says he’s a man. Women and girls need privacy and to feel safe.

Her: saying nothing but listening intently

Me: I’ve read an excellent book recently - Irreversible Damage by Abigail Shrier (I then give her a couple of salient points from the book eg ten years ago, this ideology didn’t exist/social contagion/ Internet) Also mentioned how such stereotypes were being broken down when we were children but now they’ve risen their ugly heads again.

Got interrupted by my DC who needed money. Woman went off to the till. Just as we were about to leave, she came over to me and said:

What’s the name of the book again? I’ll look for it.

Went out and elder DD furious with me for having what she called a “feminist rant” in public and how I shouldn’t express my opinions. I set her straight, too.

It felt good 😌

toffeebutterpopcorn · 22/05/2021 07:46

Which book prize was that? (Good for you though - my family are used to it these days).

Nonmaquillee · 22/05/2021 07:54

Oops - book has been nominated for the award not actually won it 😬😬 sorry!

Winner will be announced end of July.

Leafstamp · 22/05/2021 08:25

Brava @Nonmaquillee! I have a silly grin all over my face having read your post. Absolutely love it.

Good on the shop worker for listening and asking you about the name of the book.

WhoEatsPopTarts · 22/05/2021 08:47

I made a tiny bit of progress with dd1 who told me I’d made her realise how often drag humour is at the expense of women. She also told me that she hates the term platinum star gay. I have hope, but her starting point is that I’m wrong and TWAW.

toffeebutterpopcorn · 22/05/2021 08:50

‘platinum star gay’ what the hell is that? Who decides?

BluePorchAwning · 22/05/2021 08:57

The term is used to describe gay men who were were born by a C-section procedure, meaning they’ve never touched a vagina.

toffeebutterpopcorn · 22/05/2021 08:58

Done for that is gross. Some men really don’t seem to like women at all do they? What happens if they were breastfed? So they have to hand their badge back?

Monicuddle · 22/05/2021 08:59

@BluePorchAwning

The term is used to describe gay men who were were born by a C-section procedure, meaning they’ve never touched a vagina.
Their mothers must be bursting with pride.
sashh · 22/05/2021 09:00

I forgot to say, well done OP

ShagMeRiggins · 22/05/2021 09:02

@BluePorchAwning

The term is used to describe gay men who were were born by a C-section procedure, meaning they’ve never touched a vagina.
Really? FFS...
toffeebutterpopcorn · 22/05/2021 09:04

I wonder what their mums call them (‘immature and ungrateful little sh**s’ comes to mind)

WhoEatsPopTarts · 22/05/2021 09:26

@toffeebutterpopcorn

Done for that is gross. Some men really don’t seem to like women at all do they? What happens if they were breastfed? So they have to hand their badge back?
Yeah it’s horrible, I’m so pleased that dd sees it for what it is. She’s been telling me how much animosity there is towards the bisexual community and she feels it’s aimed as Bi women (which she is) even more than men. Anyway, excellent result OP.
ForThePurposeOfTheTape · 22/05/2021 10:23

I managed to turn a teen a little by asking if it's transphobic not to date a trans person then why is the word pan sexual used and they were like errrrr...

The teens I know who are coming round find the photos of Transwomen in women's teams uncomfortable. They wouldn't want mixed team contact sports and feel for those (especially in America) who are losing out on prizes and university scholarships

ShagMeRiggins · 22/05/2021 13:59

For my part I’m more vocal than ever, not that I ever hid my views. Even—finally—got my neighbour the Lib Dem district counsellor on board last weekend. It was a glorious feeling and he’s having a deep dive into the issues at the moment. His wife is a science author of children’s books so between biology, safeguarding, and the vitriol directed at Rowling, all her alarm bells are at full volume.

Yeah, that was a good night. Grin

Graffitiqueen · 22/05/2021 14:40

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Siblingquandary · 22/05/2021 14:56

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JackieWeaversZoomAc · 22/05/2021 15:02

I met a new person a couple of weeks ago. Hey we've been in lockdown so I've not met many new people!

He is a Gay man who mentioned gender woo. I took my in and expanded the conversation. He is now 100% GC and "gets it". I told him about women, children, ROGD, schools, institutional capture, Alison Bailey, Maya, the homophobia etc and his mind was blown.

Job done.

We need to get out more - there is work to be done.