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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

I've turned my husband and he's turned his employer

89 replies

Umpteenthiteration · 21/05/2021 07:43

I've been banging on for the past three years or so about what is happening with gender ideology and how damaging it is to conflate sex and gender (whatever the heck 'gender' is). Husband has nodded along and make positive noises but didn't really seem to get it. But this morning he informed me that having been involved in a consultation at work about proposed plans for a diversity and inclusion day he made it clear that they needed to replace 'gender' with 'sex' as they were two completely different things. We're talking a major global organisation here and he was giving feedback at country-level. Go him!

The conversations we have with people do make a difference.
He's been radicalised by Mumsnet by proxy.

As you were Grin

OP posts:
SirSamuelVimes · 21/05/2021 12:42

Puuuuulllllll indeed!!

My DH is totally turned. Outraged by the whole thing, he frequently has seen a thread on here and started a discussion with me about it before I've seen it. He has refused to answer "gender" questions at work and told them he doesn't have one, he has a sex, male. We also both listed ourselves on the census as superstraight.

I objected to only being asked my gender on an HR form for a school based role, told them under gdpr they can only record relevant information, and as sex is the characteristic in the equality act I would only agree to providing the information of Sex: Female for their records. They confirmed that they would record it as such and said they would review the HR form.

Drip drip drip.

DdraigGoch · 21/05/2021 12:46

@toffeebutterpopcorn

Good boy! Sad when it’s the men who have to push this bolder up the hill though.
Well they are 49% of the population so given that not all women are onboard, of course men need to be active too.
peadarm · 21/05/2021 12:50

@toffeebutterpopcorn

Good boy! Sad when it’s the men who have to push this bolder up the hill though.
Though men are less likely to be targeted and abused by TRAs...
Serpenta · 21/05/2021 12:53

' We also both listed ourselves on the census as superstraight.'

Why?

everybodysang · 21/05/2021 12:57

@Huckleberries73

I sadly have to write some of the bloody policies, but I write the trans ones, and then demand the same paid time off and counselling and leeway for women in the menopause policy I then demand.... citing that without it, they are only catering for one protected characteristic.....

So getting some really good women’s policies on the back of this bullshit.

I'd like to be absolutely upfront and say that I'm in really strong disagreement with most of you here on trans issues - and also that I'm happy with that position, and won't be changing my mind and I don't want to spend time justifying that position because I don't for a moment believe I'm going to change any of your minds either.

BUT this seems like a really brilliant move from @Huckleberries73. It seems like there's a lot of winners from pushing policies forward in this way. It also seems to me like really good ground for people of opposing viewpoints to meet on.

It just seems good that there's a way to direct opposition into something that has a positive outcome for women in an organisation.

Minezatea · 21/05/2021 13:01

It just seems good that there's a way to direct opposition into something that has a positive outcome for women in an organisation.

On one level I agree with you but if we take the full TWAW stance then women's rights are gone TBH and we are pissing in the ocean with things like this. If they are combined with a questioning of the whole ideology of 'gender identity' then they have real meaning.

You guys have made me very happy in reading this thread!

Huckleberries73 · 21/05/2021 13:29

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the poster's request.

Cagedbirdsinging · 21/05/2021 15:48

I turned the sister of our 'self ID/twaw' candidate , her boyfriend and my ndn on the evening before the election .
Puuuullll ...

MsTSwift · 21/05/2021 16:15

Dh and all my uni friends

Dogman · 21/05/2021 16:26

I’d like to thank Laurel and the IOC for turning my husband. I’d been drip dripping for years. Laurel gave the final push.

Nonmaquillee · 21/05/2021 16:29

[quote Irishmom7]@Abhannmor Irreversible Damage is a very easy read though it was upsetting in places so I had to take breaks.

I didn’t nod along with every word and rolled my eyes once or twice. It is very American but a real eye opener. I haven’t read Helen Joyce book yet.[/quote]
I’ve read it - it’s really worthwhile

Nonmaquillee · 21/05/2021 16:44

I’ve not so much “turned” as opened the eyes of various family members as well as my DP who now likes to ask me what my pronouns are today etc...My younger son once mentioned some nonsense about “gender assigned at birth” for which I gave him very short shrift and he now definitely understands why...

SirSamuelVimes · 21/05/2021 16:56

@Serpenta

' We also both listed ourselves on the census as superstraight.'

Why?

Because according to gender ideology (which the ONS seem to believe given what they were saying in court) as a straight woman, I am attracted to men, including transmen. DH, as a straight man, would be attracted to women, including transwomen. As that is not the case for either of us, we chose to define our sexuality as "superstraight" - attracted only to people of the opposite SEX, not including people of the same sex who identify as a different gender.

There was a good thread on here re. the superstraight idea (originally from a teen boy's til tok) if you are interested I will try to find it and link.

RedDogsBeg · 21/05/2021 17:15

Fortunately my husband has always 'got it' and rages against it as much as I do. He enjoys watching and supporting women's sports - football, cricket, athletics, tennis, rugby and the very idea that TW will be taking part against women absolutely infuriates him and he is not afraid to speak out about it, he knows it will ruin women's sports and he would no longer watch or support it if it happens.

Siblingquandary · 21/05/2021 17:19

On the other end of the scale, I saw a job listed today at a new transgender clinic in my area (I was doing a general job search).

Apparently my county is expanding provision so it can bring down waiting lists.

IntoAir · 21/05/2021 17:22

Sad when it’s the men who have to push this bolder up the hill though.

Yes, but they won't be witch-hunted as women can be. And also, isn't better to have men on side, rather than them getting "woke" progressive points by giving away women's rights.

RedDogsBeg · 21/05/2021 17:32

@Siblingquandary

On the other end of the scale, I saw a job listed today at a new transgender clinic in my area (I was doing a general job search).

Apparently my county is expanding provision so it can bring down waiting lists.

Was the vacancy open to all or was it just open to trans people?
MrsOvertonsWindow · 21/05/2021 17:38

Well done OP.
There are a lot of parents popping up on here asking for advice about how to ensure that their child's school is not pushing dangerous myths and stereotypes and that dire lobby group propaganda posing as SRE education is put in the bin and not taught to young children. So encouraging.

The recent AIBU thread that's just closed was very encouraging to see so many women standing up for women's rights.

When sleeping women wake, mountains move

HeronLanyon · 21/05/2021 17:43

Well done op. I chaired a meeting this afternoon of about 20 - roughly half men/women most in their late 20s early 30s. For good reason it cropped up that someone said something about two roles swapping genders. I said ‘sex’ is being swapped, surely? Two young women clocked it and nodded vigorously. A few looked confused as if I had said something questionable but then had nothing to say and we moved on. Drip drip just keep on speaking truth and fact.

3beesinmybonnet · 21/05/2021 17:50

DH thought I was getting worked up about nothing until the backlash against JKR just for stating the bleeding obvious. Now he totally gets it.

Adult DS however insists TWAW whilst completely refusing to discuss it (because he knows he's wrong but can't admit it.)

Both DH and DS, in the course of business, spent most of Tuesday in the company of a transwoman of mature years, who DH described as lovely and really helpful. Apparently she told my DS that "I wish the woke generation - that's your generation - would just go back to sleep!" and poked her finger at him just for good measure. GrinGrinGrinGrin

SirSamuelVimes · 21/05/2021 17:53

Apparently she told my DS that "I wish the woke generation - that's your generation - would just go back to sleep!" and poked her finger at him just for good measure.

Sounds like a good wish!

MadameKali · 21/05/2021 17:59

I've got DH about 80% turned but I know if I'm hectoring, it'll turn him off so I tend to read things on my phone in the same room as him. I do the whole tutting/sighing/fuck's saking under my breath thing and when he asks I tell him. I will reel him in entirely eventually. Baby steps.

I share an office with a male biology graduate and he totally gets it. Yesterday we were chatting about NB (DD identifies as such and a client has just decided to) We got on to chatting about Hubbard and a 30 something female colleague overheard. She joined in and was surprised at how much the ideology has taken over. I will be quietly, carefully working on her in the future. Baby steps.

I emailed DS's middle school this week about an event they were running and had this response:

^Good morning
Thanks for your mail.
Yes, with regard to paragraph 3, the word gender is used as the 'softer' term where we will deal with issues of sexism. I do appreciate the nudge you have given me though to be aware of the gender / sex absolute definitions, its right to raise this.^

Baby steps.

I feel much emboldened recently. I think I've just got to the point where I think Fuck It. I'm done with this shit. But I can be massively a little bit ranty so I'm trying not to turn people off by being shouty.

Nonmaquillee · 21/05/2021 18:06

@MrsOvertonsWindow

Well done OP. There are a lot of parents popping up on here asking for advice about how to ensure that their child's school is not pushing dangerous myths and stereotypes and that dire lobby group propaganda posing as SRE education is put in the bin and not taught to young children. So encouraging.

The recent AIBU thread that's just closed was very encouraging to see so many women standing up for women's rights.

When sleeping women wake, mountains move

I’m meeting a couple of SLT staff at my DC secondary school next Wednesday to discuss the materials they plan to use (SW glossary). I gained some really helpful advice on a thread I started on this issue. I am planning to take along a few documents. Looking forward to it 😊
Siblingquandary · 21/05/2021 18:09

I'm not sure @RedDogsBeg I just slipped past it, sorry

Siblingquandary · 21/05/2021 18:09

*skipped