Woman's Hour today (Monday) discussing the change back to single sex toilets

[nauticant]

They're requesting texts and emails for the discussion later on in the programme.

@Nodal

stonewall quote on now saying we should have gender based and gender neutral - interesting

Well unfortunately for Stonewall, the Minister Robert Jenrick says the words 'same sex toilets'.

Oh, and '... for safeguarding women.'

Exactly WinterTrees, they returned to the topic for one caller and then bounced over to a new topic, saying they planned to return to discussing single sex toilets later and I was struck by WH today being more like LBC than anything.

Definitely a case of cherry-picking the callers and the messages.

Single sex toilets are anti trans.

Not having single sex toilets is anti women.

The obvious and only solution is single sex AND unisex provisions available. Because inclusion means it works for everyone's access.

It really pisses me off the way we're taught to think 'they way they do things on the Continent' is so superior and progressive. Many European countries are far worse than us on women's rights, and I think their attitude to toilets and nudity is a reflection of that, not super duper progressiveness.

@Nodal

stonewall quote on now saying we should have gender based and gender neutral - interesting

Is this their Mermaids 'we never said children are born in the wrong body' moment?

Here we go from mimmymum on Twitter:

Why are you platforming two trans-hostile campaigners - especially on #IDAHOBIT2021 - without including trans-inclusive feminist voices which represent the MAJORITY opinion?

Stoking hostility against trans people for listening figures on #IDAHOBIT is NOT a good look BBC!

Trans-hostile, the usual pathetic hyperbole. As for the majority opinion comment, time an again it has been shown that public opinion is not on the side of the TRAs.

It really pisses me off the way we're taught to think 'they way they do things on the Continent' is so superior and progressive.

The recent stories breaking about the abuse of women and children in France have been shocking.

Because think how much division they could have avoided if they'd just been campaigning for a third space mixed sex/gender neutral toilet, third space changing room, third space dorm, prison, sporting competitions all along.

A few mixed sex single cubicle toilets alongside single sex provision is the way to sort this out. God knows why that is such a huge problem for some, it’s really the best of both worlds.

I almost don't want to ask, but... #IDAHOBIT??

@IvyTwines2

Because think how much division they could have avoided if they'd just been campaigning for a third space mixed sex/gender neutral toilet, third space changing room, third space dorm, prison, sporting competitions all along.

Such a good point They are beginning to reap what they have sown. From #nodebate , 100 plus genders (still counting), frugs and surgery for children to 'words as literal violence'. All the reverse ferrets in the world will not get them out of the mess these organisations have created without considerable loss of face - and hopefully finances.

It's International identifying a hobbit day WinterTrees.

International Day of Action for ...?

.. Hoping Ovary Bearers Include Transwomen.

@nauticant

.. Hoping Ovary Bearers Include Transwomen.

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

I caught a few minutes of this - there was a woman saying she couldn’t imagine what could be wrong with mixed toilets, if the stalls were fully enclosed. I very nearly called in to tell her that was the exact circumstances in which a man attempted to rape me, in France ten years ago. He was waiting in the opposite enclosed toilet.

I can’t imagine having such wide eyed innocence about this subject.

@IvyTwines2

Note the BBC's wording of the Tweet: 'Communities Secretary *@RobertJenrick* is to rewrite planning regulations forcing public buildings to have separate male and female toilets instead of gender-neutral facilities, but is this change a step forward or back?'

The negative and brutal-sounding 'forcing', like it's something we don't want, instead of the word 'requiring'.

Surely that's a misrepresentation? Existing building regulations already require separate male and female provision for multi-entry facilities. It's only single-entry ones that can be unisex. All Jenrick is doing is ensuring that the regulations are enforced.

Much of what has happened recently has completely ignored the regulations, which also specify, in great detail, how many cubicles must be provided for women and how many urinals and cubicles for men depending on the kind of building, its purpose and its staff and visitor numbers.

Those recent changes from separate to mixed-sex facilities paid no need to these requirements, leading to increasing underprovision for women when that was already a problem in many buildings.

@WinterTrees

I almost don't want to ask, but... #IDAHOBIT??

I've no idea and I can't be arsed to look it up it is no doubt yet another of the hundreds of days for the special ones.

FFS, the Twitter comments. Who ARE all these people who let any random stranger use the lav in their house (bet they don’t) and genuinely don’t understand that personal decisions don’t automatically and unproblematically translate to public policy?

@IvyTwines2

It really pisses me off the way we're taught to think 'they way they do things on the Continent' is so superior and progressive. Many European countries are far worse than us on women's rights, and I think their attitude to toilets and nudity is a reflection of that, not super duper progressiveness.

Claims to the prevalence of mixed-sex toilets in mainland Europe are also often plain untrue. I've seen plenty statements that they are the norm in Germany or France for instance and there's simply no evidence of that.

And the mixed-sex changing rooms I've seen in Germany are not designed as "changing villages" like in my local pool here, with plenty of open space for men to stand and watch. No, they are purposefully designed to maximise privacy, with no space available to just stand and gawp. (Coz you'd stick out like a sore thumb and block the way, two things sure to get you complained about swiftly.)

#HopingOvaryBearersIncludeTranswomen sounded very plausible but I took one for the team and went to check it out. Apparently it's #InternationalDayAgainstHomo-Bi-Transphobia - who knew?! I can absolutely see why Mimmymum was so outraged that Woman's Hour should be talking about women's toilet provision today.

(Oh wait. No I can't.)

I can absolutely see why Mimmymum was so outraged that Woman's Hour should be talking about women's toilet provision today.

Well I can. When you feel that you are so righteous that you can interject whatever the 'International day' theme is into shaming anyone not focusing males in a positive light, I guess discussing women's toilet provision the first opportunity after the report is released is problematic..... Because, the reality is, that it will NEVER be the right time to discuss it as we have seen, including International Women's day, Lesbian visibility week or a day to discuss the violence against women and girls.

Those days also come too close to a day (too close being a day, week or month adjacent) where we should be centering males, to discuss women's toilet provision. We can't take the focus away from males in some activist's eyes.

@Maduixa

FFS, the Twitter comments. Who ARE all these people who let any random stranger use the lav in their house (bet they don’t) and genuinely don’t understand that personal decisions don’t automatically and unproblematically translate to public policy?

Yes, it's idiot bingo. Do they leave their wallets and car keys on the cafe table when they nip to the loo, as they would on the table at home?

I think the Conservatives are learning now that policy development informed by Twitter is (a) not much of a vote winner, (b) often unlawful, and (c) frequently unhinged.