Ladies and Gents loos to return!

[Theluggage15]

In the Telegraph: Return of ladies and gents lavatories, as ministers tell architects all new buildings must have separate facilities
Buildings which already had unisex lavatories, which are shared by men and women, also face having to install partitions.

‘These changes will help to maintain safeguards that protect women and the proper provision of separate toilets, which has long been a regulatory requirement, will be retained and improved.‘

Apologies I don’t know how to do share tokens. This is great news!

My local council has just announced a £5 million refurbishment of public toilets, and yes, they will be gender neutral aka mixed sex: www.google.com/amp/s/www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/edinburgh-council-confirms-5m-toilets-20513536.amp

Wonder if I can challenge this on the basis of this new government initiative?

You definitely should try, ifyouarefeelingsinister. I expect the rules will only apply in England, but you can still use them and the reasoning behind them to challengé Edinburgh’s decision.

Apparently the rules will also apply to offices, shops and entertainment venues as well as public buildings. This is good news for a friend of mine who’s just found out that her new office buildings only have gender neutral loos. She was telling me that she was going to drink as little as possible during the day so she could avoid using them.

The article also has the quote that the government listened to the concerns raised by women and the elderly about their security, dignity and safety. Well that makes a nice change, women actually being consulted and heard!

@RedDogsBeg

I hope so, but I want an explicit and unequivocal statement from the Government that toilets are segregated on the basis of sex, not gender, and that must be used according to biological sex.

Look on the bright side.

At least that's possible, when sex segregated toilets actually exist.

@Ifyourefeelingsinister

Well this is good news, but I wonder if it will apply in Scotland, or are we a lost cause up here?

I suspect this will cause the SNP to accelerate provision of mixed sex toilets to demonstrate how much more progressive Scotland is

That's good news.
I reckon if the cisgendered (male and female) were asked about gender neutral (unisex) toilets you would get few people preferring them.
But it is important that trans people also have safe and appropriate toilets, so I would hope there would be some gender neutral provision as well.

I would hope there would be some gender neutral provision as well

Wouldn't it be better just to refer to sex? Single sex toilets, with a mixed-sex toilet available for anyone who wants to use it. What on earth does 'gender' (which nobody is able to define without going round in circles and falling back on sex-based regressive stereotypes of dress or behaviour) have to do with this?

@Beamur

That's good news. I reckon if the cisgendered (male and female) were asked about gender neutral (unisex) toilets you would get few people preferring them. But it is important that trans people also have safe and appropriate toilets, so I would hope there would be some gender neutral provision as well.

A shame ‘cis’ keeps creeping in on here.

@MidsomerMurmurs

I would hope there would be some gender neutral provision as well

Wouldn't it be better just to refer to sex? Single sex toilets, with a mixed-sex toilet available for anyone who wants to use it. What on earth does 'gender' (which nobody is able to define without going round in circles and falling back on sex-based regressive stereotypes of dress or behaviour) have to do with this?

Well I don’t really care what they call it. It’s the fact that it’s available that’s the issue. Unisex is fine with me.

Wow. Great news. All we need now is for it to be made clear that 'ladies' is for females and 'gents' is for males.

@ChristinaXYZ

And I look forward to seeing builders setting about the loos in the Old Vic in particular.

And so many other arts venues, where the women's toilets were changed to entirely mixed sex, with no consultation, no consent given, and a 'no means yes' attitude which is, sadly, entirely in keeping with the institutional misogyny we see everywhere in the Arts through the stories emerging with the #metoo hashtag.

I wonder if they'll start with the "gender neutral" (aka mixed sex) toilets in Robert Jenrick's department's central London offices?

I would not celebrate yet. Only new buildings, not conversions, and given the government record of not considering enforcement, I wonder what the penalties will be? A token fine perhaps?

Starting with all government buildings old and new where this does not apply would set an example.

I am extremely pleased with this govt decision but I also have the nagging doubt mentioned here by RedDogsBeg

One step at a time. It will not all happen over-night. This is going to be long haul.

I reckon if the cisgendered (male and female) were asked about gender neutral (unisex) toilets you would get few people preferring them

I really don't think so. Gender neutral is another way of saying mixed sex.

I cannot even imagine sure why you might even consider this this be true, certainly for women?

Hopefully being forced to divert part of their budget to building works to reinstate the perfectly fine men's and women's loos they already previously had...will focus some minds against ever repeating any such foolishness.

This is good news for a friend of mine who’s just found out that her new office buildings only have gender neutral loos.

But if it's an office the U.K. that's illegal under health and safety rules already Theluggage15, unless they are self-contained rooms.
www.hse.gov.uk/contact/faqs/toilets.htm

Anyway, I'm delighted by this news. I like in Wokesville and there are several restaurants that I would go to but they have decided to convert their women's and men's toilets into gender-neutral with/without urinals. The result is that I just don't go out to those places. I tried emailing one and they basically didn't care about safeguarding or my history of sexual assault and told me to use the disabled loo

But it is important that trans people also have safe and appropriate toilets, so I would hope there would be some gender neutral provision as well

There could be a couple of mixed sex toilets for those that prefer them or who are happy to use them.

If you look at the queue outside of the women's toilet ( in France), even though there is a mixed sex one readily available, you will realise how much women do not feel comfortable in mixed sex facilities:

Very encouraging words from baroness Faulkner in the DM today .

Looks like common sense may be returning.

“Women can challenge transgender activism “

@Justhadathought

I reckon if the cisgendered (male and female) were asked about gender neutral (unisex) toilets you would get few people preferring them

I really don't think so. Gender neutral is another way of saying mixed sex.

I cannot even imagine sure why you might even consider this this be true, certainly for women?

Why don’t you think people don’t like unisex toilets? I think women in particular don’t like them. Are you saying you think most prefer to share facilities with men?

This is excellent news! Will the government pay to implement this in the public sector funded schools and offices and universities where it’s already gone unisex-toilets-only? They won’t be able to afford to undo this. Even though they mysteriously found the money in the first place.

If they think single sex toilets are important, what will government do about eg schools or private or public sector employers who allow their male bodied pupils or staff to use the unadapted women’s toilets and showers facilities at school or at work?

Leaving the onus on girls and women to complain about their male peers’ behaviour which as we know in a lot of environments could be a big problem for the complainant. This is why Maya forstater’s case is pivotal and Ann Sinnott’s too.

The article also has the quote that the government listened to the concerns raised by women and the elderly about their security, dignity and safety. Well that makes a nice change, women actually being consulted and heard!

It does indeed, I expect the consultation received some very robust responses from women backed up with evidence as always which means it would be very difficult to dismiss.

I see what some posters have said in response to my comment, that we must have single sex toilets in place in order to insist they are single sex.

Why don’t you think people don’t like unisex toilets? I think women in particular don’t like them. Are you saying you think most prefer to share facilities with men

i'm not sure if this post was directed to me/my post?

I think it is obvious that women do not like having to share mixed sex facilities with men in most intimate circumstances. I'm amazed that anyone would suggest that people might actively prefer them.

I think justhadathought may have misread pota2's post. You both seem to be saying the same thing.