Jancie Turner on Banning Conversion Therapy

[Igneococcus]

Yay, share tokens work again:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ba6b6340-b4f8-11eb-9055-64edaa2be8dd?shareToken=081c12c70e198007867f568131be11db

I didn't know conversion therapy still happened in the UK.
Yes, it should be banned.
Appalling.

I had worried much needed counselling of Young girls struggling with puberty and questioning their gender could be swept up in the completely acceptable banning of gay conversion therapy. Janice's take on this, almost turning the tables, is interesting.

I am not sure the law needs ro get involved here as in this environment it is a blunt instrument.

Professional bodies should discipline members who try and to convert homosexuals but is it wrong for a church or other organization to do so if they say up front that is their aim and if anyone signing up for it is over 18?

When it comes to the trans issue it becomes absurdly complex, are affirmation models trying to trans the gay away? I know what I believe. I know others differ but how you set this out in law is any one's guess

many clinicians feel they have witnessed, even been expected to participate in, gay conversion themselves. Tavistock patients are overwhelmingly gay, including 90 per cent of girls. For some parents outside big liberal cities there is more stigma in saying your little girl is a lesbian than a boy “born in the wrong body” who doctors can fix into a straight son. Horrified gay clinicians at Tavistock told Dr David Bell, who wrote a whistleblowing report, that many parents were keener on medical transition than their child was or appeared to be reciting an activist script.

more sunlight

many parents were keener on medical transition than their child was

like that poor 4 year girl in the paper the other day

parents who seek cures for their “effeminate” boys or “butch” girls should take note.

yup.

Ministers were alarmed by the judicial review against the Tavistock won by Keira Bell, a troubled young woman who was prescribed puberty blockers and testosterone by the centre, and who had a double mastectomy she regrets. They plan to include compelling someone to transition as a form of conversion therapy. This will allow “detransitioners” such as Bell to get funding and support as conversion victims.

I thought this was very interesting. The lawyers will be circling Mermaids et al if this goes through...

Horrified gay clinicians at Tavistock told Dr David Bell, who wrote a whistleblowing report, that many parents were keener on medical transition than their child was or appeared to be reciting an activist script.

This is why it is so important for young people to be competent to give fully informed consent to any medical interventions and that parents shouldn't be able to consent on their behalf if they are not capable of consent.

Changing to parental consent (as the fox killer campaigns for) would allow homophobic parents to trans away the gay in their children.

It would be such karma if the Stonewall campaign for a conversion therapy ban, ruled out encouraging transition for gay children or suggesting that they may really be a ‘boy in a girl’s body’.

@ItsAllGoingToBeFine

Ministers were alarmed by the judicial review against the Tavistock won by Keira Bell, a troubled young woman who was prescribed puberty blockers and testosterone by the centre, and who had a double mastectomy she regrets. They plan to include compelling someone to transition as a form of conversion therapy. This will allow “detransitioners” such as Bell to get funding and support as conversion victims.

I thought this was very interesting. The lawyers will be circling Mermaids et al if this goes through...

That caught my eye, too. Has JT got inside information or did I miss a story somewhere?

And here is Patrick strudwick straight in with tje exact tactics we know will be used

inews.co.uk/news/long-reads/conversion-therapy-assault-psyche-consult-1001891

Every example he uses is about sexuality and it’s truly truly awful. Of course no one should be attempting to convert gay men or lesbian women to be straight

But of course he ushers the T under the umbrella too insisting that it too is “innate” and conflating the horrific experiences of the things five to young gay men in his piece with psychotherapists being able to fully explore with gender non confirming teenagers exactly what is going on with their lives that they feel the need for surgery and hormones for life

A possibly interesting point to add here is that I can think of at least two cases (but suspect there are many more) where high-profile parents of transitioned children have literally written/spoken about the punishments and in some cases physical beatings meted out to their children in an effort to force them to conform to stereotypes of their sex, or stop behaviours the parents associated with being gay, before then going on to "trans" their children.

Susie Green has been open about her husband's attempts to force their child to conform, about taking away toys that were considered "wrong" for a boy, and more. Then there was that poor child in the US I think (or possibly Canada?) whose mum wrote loads of stuff online about how they had beaten and punished their child over a long period to stop them "acting gay" (I paraphrase slightly, but that was the gist!) before eventually deciding phew, "he's" actually a "she" so it's all OK. How can this possibly not be considered as attempts at gay "conversion therapy" by the parents, and if it is clear in that case, surely the transitioning of the children after that must be seen as a continuation of the process by other means?

They plan to include compelling someone to transition as a form of conversion therapy. This will allow “detransitioners” such as Bell to get funding and support as conversion victims

this is interesting, where is it from exactly?

I for one will be gardening for any conversion victims bringing a case

Stonewall and Mermaids might regret this campaign. Hopefully it will bite them in the arse. Hope MPs are bright enough to see the contradictions.

I've just started a thread about this - Transgender Trend have produced an insightful blog detailing the embarrassing lack of evidence and research from those powerful organisations currently lobbying parliament about this:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4245508-Transgender-Trend-Conversion-therapy-excellent-research

@FindTheTruth

I for one will be gardening for any conversion victims bringing a case

Absolutely!

Conversion therapy government consultation planned for September.

Where do 'therapists' / parents who believe their baby/toddler is trans fall in the 'conversion therapy' debate?

@ALLIANCELGB
So many happy lesbians, gay men and bisexuals are incredulous to hear people proclaiming that when children object to stereotypical clothes or toys they’re sending “gender messages”. No. They’re displaying their individuality - which deserves to be loved & nourished, not labeled.

@LilyLilyMaynard
Gender therapist who thinks baby boys who unsnap their onesies to ‘make a dress’ and baby girls who tear out hair grips are giving ‘pre verbal indications’ that they are transgender
twitter.com/LilyLilyMaynard/status/1312474230299086848

" Where do 'therapists' / parents who believe their baby/toddler is trans fall in the 'conversion therapy' debate?"

I assume they will be arguing they are letting kids be their authentic selves

it is what they usually do

Changing your body into something different is conversion therapy isnt it. From one gendered body into another.

A ban on conversion therapy would ban individuals converting yo the opposite sex surely...

@TropicalFairyCake

Changing your body into something different is conversion therapy isnt it. From one gendered body into another.

A ban on conversion therapy would ban individuals converting yo the opposite sex surely...

Adults making decisions to surgically or chemically alter their bodies is not conversion therapy. Bodies are sexed not 'gendered' and you can't change sex.

Telling gay children they were born in the wrong and must take hormones and have surgery to correct this IS conversion therapy.

I find this all very strange. As a UKCP registered psychotherapist of over thirty years in practice I can say that I have never had or heard of any training, never seen a book or professional paper regarding how to perform conversion therapy. We are a profession that does a very great deal of reading and publishing!

I,ve never come across a patient who has previously received any conversion therapy from a psychotherapist ,,counsellor, psychologist or psychiatrist.

Quite simply, we don’t offer this; because there isn’t any credible basis for doing so.

And as far as I recall , Freud didn’t offer this either.

I be interested to know what the experience of members of the other professional bodies has been.

Its not just gay children though is it. (Although agree completely how shocking it is to try to convert a body rather than accept a gay child :( )

But encouraging any child to try to convert their body from a female appearance body to a male appearance body is a form of conversion that should be banned.

Any agreeing with "brain in wrong body" and converting the body to match seems a from of converting to me and so wrong.