Society feels so porn obsessed these days

[H2OConnoisseur]

Here are some things off the top of my head that I've observed in the past few weeks alone:

1. My previously nice, decent (mostly male) friends from Uni have bought into the mantra that 'women objectify themselves anyway' and now constantly spam the group WhatsApp with Instagram and OnlyFan links of women, complete with ensuing discussions about how 'fuckable' they are

1. I was on a job-seeking forum for students and recent graduates, and so many posts were about cam work or OnlyFans, and so many men were posting about how women are fortunate that they could get rich doing something like that

1. Almost all of my friends have boyfriends that watch/subscribe to porn accounts, with a good amount of them even chatting with the content creator. Half of them hate it but feel like they don't know any men who aren't like that and that if they say anything they're being 'jealous and possessive', and the other half think that there's nothing wrong with it and that the people who do have a problem with it are 'jealous and possessive'.

I know I should just ignore it if I don't like it but it's everywhere and I am frankly a mix of disgusted and frustrated about it all. A year ago, I was even told by one of my (now ex) best friends (completely out of the blue we weren't even having a conversation) that he would subscribe to my OnlyFans if I ever decide to create one!

Not sure what the point of this thread is but I'm having the worst day and am trying to refrain from cursing out a friend after she told another friend that she was insecure for wanting to leave her porn obsessed boyfriend!

The mainstreaming of this stuff - OnlyFans etc. in particular - is also a product of the idea of Sexual ('erotic') Capital. An idea that flickered briefly in the late 60s, it has come back with a vengeance in NeoLiberal societies where the collective politics of the Left have atomised into Identity stuff, analytical Feminism eroded by choosy choicy stuff, and a general shift towards the cult of individualism.

Sexual Capital is often promoted as benefiting women more than men... but clearly doesn't on any healthy score. And the idea that women can 'parlay' this type of Capital into...Well, the various better kinds, prompts the question 'why can't women have the better kinds of Capital to start with?'

I left Reddit when they closed down Gender Critical but unless FDS has changed in the last year, I wouldn't describe it as toxic. It encourages women to understand their self worth and set boundaries whilst maintaining financial independence.

Almost all of my friends have boyfriends that watch/subscribe to porn accounts, with a good amount of them even chatting with the content creator. Half of them hate it but feel like they don't know any men who aren't like that and that if they say anything they're being 'jealous and possessive', and the other half think that there's nothing wrong with it and that the people who do have a problem with it are 'jealous and possessive'.

Hello OP. This paragraph, from your first post, was enough to convince me that we are experiencing another backlash, as we did in the 1990s with the so-called ‘new laddism’.

It’s different this time around, but comes from the same place. Those women getting a bit full of themselves and having too many things going their way? Time to put them in their place.

In the 1990s it was the vogue for every female celebrity under 35 to be encouraged to pose in her knickers for one of the ‘lad’ magazines. We weren’t supposed to object to this, of course, or find it uncomfortable that our boyfriends read this stuff, because that made us miserable, bitter, envious spoilsports. I’m 49, so I was in my twenties when this was happening.

The men who started those magazines were unhappy about men’s roles having changed in the 1980s, and wanted to go back to a more traditional version of manhood that only existed in Carry On films and gangster movies. Those pesky women, spoiling their fun!

The world moved on and all those magazines closed, but it was only a matter of time before the same thing happened again. Those women have got a bit full of themselves again, what with Me Too and Time’s Up. Enter Only Fans.

Your friends need to wake up and find better boyfriends who respect the women in their lives.

@Rocaille I don't want to derail the thread but it's an echo chamber of self-pity and hate. As a PP alluded to it reminds me of the vitriol that used to be posted on all those incel and red pill subs.

Going back to the OPs point - how do we turn the tide on this? It seems insurmountable at this stage and I fear we've lost a generation.

Thanks, coronaway. I disagree with your take on FDS, but like you don't want to derail this thread...

how do we turn the tide on this? It seems insurmountable at this stage and I fear we've lost a generation.

I think the worrying thing for me is that this is only the beginning. Porn and sex work has never been seen as more acceptable and even celebrated than in recent months. It's now seen as empowering and progressive by women, and most men won't object because, in the words of a 'dear friend', 'more women, more variety, cheaper prices, what's not to love about feminism!'

I feel like things will get a lot worse before it has gone too far spurring people to begin to have second thoughts about it all. Depressing.

How we turn the tide? The 'porn lock/passport' proposal that was going to be introduced, but was abandoned or postponed at short notice.

We need to keep shouting about erectile dysfunction. Men won’t talk about it and they may feel they are the only one affected. Women need to shout about it for them and then the men will do something because it affects them.

I hate that this is the only solution I can see because it means the women have to do all the work as usual, but men won’t.

I hate to think how many women are going to suffer because the man will blame the fact he can’t get an erection on the woman, rather than his porn habit.

Once men begin equating porn habit with loss of orgasm they will change. The problem is getting that message out there.

Sadly it still means male orgasm is prized above all else, and that is a problem I have no answer to.

@newnortherner111

How we turn the tide? The 'porn lock/passport' proposal that was going to be introduced, but was abandoned or postponed at short notice.

Hmm I don't quite think this might be useful though. Most people already use VPNs and AFAIK, amongst the people I know, the main site people casually visit these days for porn (the classical porn sites are for 'serious' sessions not casual scrolling throughout the day) is Reddit which primarily is used as a general purpose social media site.

@Worldgonecrazy I'm not sure that will cut it. For example if we relate it to sugar and overeating - we can shout about diabetes as much as we want yet people continue to binge on sugar etc.

The reason I said that I fear we'll lose a generation is because I think it will only be when the current pro sex work 20 year olds reach their 30s will they realise how damaging all this is.

I think maybe there is a need for some new language or concepts to talk about it.

Anytime something as powerful as the sex drive is given what seems like total consequence free space, and no really coherent, inherent ethical constraints, you have a high chance that it will become out of control.

Right now, there are two main approaches - the health one, which appeals to self-preservation, but then it doesn't affect the majority, and also men don't talk about it so much among themselves for obvious reasons. Once they have a problem they are already going to struggle to give up porn.

Then there are ethical questions about things like consent. This can be more fruitful, but given that society only seems to think in terms of contracts, it means that a lot of people believe that porn is just a-ok if people consent, just like many other sexual activities including some rather sketch ones.

Unless people think that there is something more basic that's problematic, and have a pretty clear way to talk about it, they will struggle to articulate to themselves why it shouldn't be allowed. And because sex is so compelling to many people they will just go along with the idea that it's ok.

I was listening to a West Wing podcast (of all thngs) the other day, and they were interviewing a man who's work was combatting sex-trafficking and he was vehemently opposed to the legalisation of prostitution. He said that while the women involved should not be criminalised, making it legal just gives a front to sex traffickers.

The legal above-board brothel would always have the legitimate store-front..all clean and regulated, but there would always be the more-expensive children next door hidden away. The legal part just becomes a store front.

I despair sometimes at where we're going. What was it Germaine said .
'Women will never realise how much some men hate them'

I was wondering, if the sexual instinct is a form of energy that drives men on, in an abstract way, to try to be the best, to be vigorous, to strive for things in life, what happens when that energy is all dissipated inwards towards the self in front of a screen?

Will impossible bridges still be built etc?

What do men feel like who can’t control their own mind but instead are ruled by their physiological trigger responses to content someone else has set up for them?

What happens to their own imagination and dreams?

“SmokedDuck
Anytime something as powerful as the sex drive is given what seems like total consequence free space, and no really coherent, inherent ethical constraints, you have a high chance that it will become out of control.“

Yes, I agree. Anything so easily affecting the primitive, highly sensitive, delicate, limbic system(? If I have the correct region of the brain) can lead to desensitisation and loss of control.

It is like food with sugar but no nutrition. The addictive process is partly a sort of starvation. The more you get the hungrier you are.

No relationship, no human contact, no even potential procreation, no achievement to go with the sex, no need to compete against other men, no energy to sublimate towards achieving some goal must eventually mean emptiness.

I hope all the investigations taking place as a result of Everyone's Invited will highlight the issues with porn. The schools are fighting a losing battle with the wider culture.

@GrownUpBeans

I hope all the investigations taking place as a result of Everyone's Invited will highlight the issues with porn. The schools are fighting a losing battle with the wider culture.

I'm afraid that I'm a pessimist when it comes to this and have this sinking feeling that things will take a turn in the other direction. There's already a very vocal and growing group shouting about how normalisation is the solution. According to their (ridiculous IMO) logic, if there is no shame in doing sex work, society will have a much healthier attitude towards sex and such abuse will decrease alongside that.

I hope I'm wrong but I don't think I am.

Can't even read a fucking discussion on the alumni Facebook page about the economy and job security (!) without seeing (highly liked) posts about how at least women can do well on OF if they lose their job while men are screwed. Think it's time for me to get off social media and WhatsApp groups.

Apologies for language.

Keep reminding the men that they can do gay only fans work and It doesn’t matter if they find the customer sexually repulsive as that’s how the women feel too,

I think a lot of men still believe women find most of them sexually attractive.

Maybe reminding them of the reality of what the women are actually doing to make money will make them start thinking a bit more?

“Worldgonecrazy

Keep reminding the men that they can do gay only fans work”

Do you know if anyone has pointed this out to the men in your WA groups H20conoisseur?

Yes I'd be interested in what they had to say to that point.

Sadly that's another common question that gets dismissed whenever I see it pop up anywhere. The gist (according to many in the 'women are so lucky' segment) is that they are not gay and therefore the acts/poses they have to do are not things they'd normally do whereas to them women are doing things they enjoy and will normally do anyway!

A lot of them also enjoy bringing up the comparison of how flattering/ego-boosting it'd be if a bunch of women paid them money to look at pics of them and how it would be great if they were paid to have sex with a bunch of women too. Of course, I think (purely conjecture here) that they also think that their audience if the roles were reversed would be the women currently on OF as these are the ones who tend to tout the 'I love sex and have made a career out of something I enjoy doing for free anyway' in all posts re sex work.

That is interesting H20Conoisseur.

Do you think these same men would feel at ease if their girlfriends were doing OF? Or do people not tend to have love relationships so to speak?

I agree. Just recently I was at dinner at some friends' and a (single) guy who was there, who I had met not 10 minutes prior, started casually talking about porn and kink as if it were some sort of cultural milieu like film or literature. And recently, some male colleagues have started making some off-colour, porn-related jokes in a group work chat. Is it the pandemic? I found both very bizarre and wonder if these men think that we find that totally normal? It instantly makes me imagine them spending the last year of lockdown furiously masturbating in a grubby apartment to images of women being degraded, and I see them in a much creepier, more pathetic light.

I would also suggest FDS - sure, maybe some of the rhetoric might be a bit angry but there's also a lot of humour and it's nice to see a large community of women who are done with the idea that porn, SW, one night stands etc are empowering for women.

Something for your mates OP...

filia.org.uk/latest-news/2021/5/12/onlyfans-the-path-to-legitimising-pornography