School newsletter tells girls how to bind

[ErrolTheDragon]

There's a piece in the Times today ... parents not happy at the content of a newsletter produced by the 6th formers

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/nonsuch-high-school-sixth-formers-told-girls-11-how-to-bind-breasts-k7slvrbkr?shareToken=a84af706d3b638e2ea3d2d53ea04e29d

I'm kind of new to this thread, because I've been off mumsnet most of the weekend. So on this thread, a transwoman has confirmed that she doesn't think that a female child should be diagnosed as being trans if she feels she isn't meant to be a girl.

And presumably it follows that Spoonrider feels that no-one should be prescribing a girl cross-sex hormones because she wants her hair cut short, to be called a male name, to wear "boys clothes" and is interested exclusively in "boys games and toys".

So, perhaps we are more in agreement than we are in disagreement, which is nice. I like to find shared ground in discussions, and it's nice to hear new voices.

What concerns me is the amount of people out there who disagree with both me and Spoon, and do think such a child is trans, and who proceed accordingly.

Why do transwomen claim to know what it is like to be a woman?

Why do mature transwomen claim to understand the health needs of teenaged females, regardless of how those females identify?

Why do people who have no experience or knowledge of being or raising a girl to be a young woman as a mother of that child try to shame people for discussing the needs of those young females?

The answers to these questions also continue to be elusive.

There can be no moving forward without the acknowledgement that there is a significant issue at the moment that affects young females and that some mothers have insight that is very pertinent to these issues.

@SirVixofVixHall

I feel a generation of girls have been groomed to accept porn and extreme promiscuity.

Yes absolutely, and a huge part of that is also about the normalisation of what are quite extreme sexual practices as harmless "kink" or "preference".

I am in my fifties and I have no idea what chemsex is!

From the BMJ, 2015:
Editorials
What is chemsex and why does it matter?

BMJ 2015; 351 doi: doi.org/10.1136/bmj.h5790 (Published 03 November 2015)
Cite this as: BMJ 2015;351:h5790
Article
Related content
Metrics
Responses
Hannah McCall, senior nurse, genitourinary medicine/sexual and reproductive health 1, Naomi Adams, head of sexual health psychology 1, David Mason, specialist substance misuse practitioner2, Jamie Willis, outreach and training manager3
Author affiliations
Correspondence to: H McCall [email protected]
It needs to become a public health priority

“Chemsex” is used in the United Kingdom to describe intentional sex under the influence of psychoactive drugs, mostly among men who have sex with men. It refers particularly to the use of mephedrone, γ-hydroxybutyrate (GHB), γ-butyrolactone (GBL), and crystallised methamphetamine. These drugs are often used in combination to facilitate sexual sessions lasting several hours or days with multiple sexual partners.
Mephedrone and crystal meth are physiological stimulants, increasing heart rate and blood pressure, as well as triggering euphoria and sexual arousal. GHB (and its precursor GBL) is a powerful psychological disinhibitor and also a mild anaesthetic. Anecdotal reports and some small qualitative studies in the UK find that people engaging in chemsex report better sex, with these drugs reducing inhibitions and increasing pleasure. They facilitate sustained arousal and induce a feeling of instant rapport with sexual partners. Some users report using them to manage negative feelings, such as a lack of confidence and self esteem, internalised homophobia, and stigma about their HIV status.

Guardian article:
www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/22/addicted-to-chemsex-gay-drugs-film

The Priory:
www.priorygroup.com/blog/what-is-chemsex

For those unaware, the side-effects of cross-sex hormones for female people are still being uncovered.

^The therapy has previously been linked to various heart problems, with evidence showing transgender men have as much as a 5-times greater risk of heart attack vs.cisgender women, the authors note.

[...]

Although the American Heart Association issued a 2020 Scientific Statement addressing the heart disease risk, evidence on the effects specifically on blood pressure in transgender patients has been inconsistent.

For the new study, Banks and colleagues enrolled 247 transgender females and 223 transgender males who were treated between 2007 and 2015 at two medical centers in Washington. Of the patients, who had an average age of 27.8, about 27% were non-White and 16% were Latino.

They had blood pressure measurements taken at the beginning of the study and at follow-up visits for up to 57 months after the start of gender-affirming hormone therapy.

As many as 40% of transgender men had stage 1 hypertension after 11 to 21 months of hormone therapy.

Full source here: www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/news/20210419/transgender-therapy-tied-to-blood-pressure-changes

Surely anyone having sex under the influence of drugs and not in total control of what they are doing , well there's a word for that isn't there ?

Its certainly not chemsex I'd use to describe ot..

Slightly but here is a good article on teenage gender dysphoria by Lionel Shriver. She had gender dysphoria, to the point of changing her name from Margaret to Lionel when she was 15.

www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/essays/gender-good-for-nothing

@Whatwouldscullydo

Surely anyone having sex under the influence of drugs and not in total control of what they are doing , well there's a word for that isn't there ?

Its certainly not chemsex I'd use to describe ot..

It might be something that one would want to talk (responsibly) to sixth-formers about. But it's definitely not something that sixth-formers should be talking to 11-year olds about.

@WoolOfBat

But if there were so many “hidden” trans boys years ago, where is the increase in middle aged trans men? Given the acceptance of trans today?

This question has been asked a few times on this thread and elsewhere but I've never seen an answer to it. How is it explained? Surely in order for it to be a natural occurrence and not influence by society and culture then there'd be similar numbers throughout generations.

Let's shed a little light on the drugs often used by grown men during chemsex (being promoted via the link in this article). NB the school is fine with this promotion btw.

"Revealed: The Hidden Epidemic Of Abuse, Overdose, And Death Caused By The Sex Drug G"

www.buzzfeed.com/patrickstrudwick/sex-drug-ghb-abuse-overdose-death

"The Lethal Sex Drug GBL Is Being Sold Through Facebook"

www.buzzfeed.com/patrickstrudwick/gbl-sex-drug-sold-facebook?ref=hpsplash

"He Found His Husband Dead From A GHB Overdose"

www.buzzfeed.com/patrickstrudwick/husband-dead-ghb-overdose?ref=hpsplash

"A Warning Has Been Issued That Rapists Are Mixing The Drug GHB With Lubricant
Along with drinks being spiked with GHB and GBL, predators are now mixing them into lubricant, a probation official has told BuzzFeed News, as victims speak out."

www.buzzfeed.com/patrickstrudwick/rapists-are-mixing-the-drug-ghb-with-lubricant

"The drug GHB and related substances are to be reclassified from class C to class B following their use in “truly sickening” high-profile rape cases, the home secretary has said.
The reclassification means those found in unlawful possession of the drugs will face tougher penalties and victims will be better protected from their use by criminals, the Home Office said."

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/mar/30/ghb-to-become-class-b-drug-in-uk-after-use-in-high-profile-cases?CMP=ShareiOSAppp_Other

"The drug thought to have been used by Reynhard Sinaga to rape almost 200 men is available for less than 10p a dose when bought as the cleaning solvent GBL, which converts into GHB when ingested"

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/online-sellers-flog-date-rape-21235236

@Stampyfeet so the link itself, shared in the newsletter doesn't take students directly through to chemsex or anal sex guides? I feel a bit misled then by SSA's coverage of this issue on twitter- they've shared images of screenshots of anal sex guide which to me implies the newsletter had used links directly to an anal sex guide. When in fact this is not the case.

There is also content about anal sex on the NHS website-does that mean you would object to this school sharing the NHS homepage with students because on that site they could navigate themselves to a page on anal sex?
I am not saying I agree with a newsletter being the right forum for students to have questions on these topics answered- I think an 'ask anything/queer questions' box where questions are answered in PSHE lessons or RSE lessons by a trained, professional in an age appropriate way for the students in the room would be a much more appropriate way of discussing the issues students at the school have been asking.

Makingnumber2 The link appears to be clearly aimed at adults. There is nothing in it that suggests it's intended or is suitable for 11 year olds. Is it ok to send children a link to a website where you can get a free fisting pack for engaging in group sex and chemsex? This is so far beyond the bounds of acceptable.

I've only just read this Times article and I'm sure this has been raised already but re this paragraph;

The April edition of the Friends of Dorothy newsletter, which is sent to pupils but not their parents

Is the sixth form mixed sex? Otherwise I find it strange that a newsletter at an all girls school is called 'Friends of Dorothy' - an old fashioned and decades old slang term for gay men.

Further to that the school and governors really need hauling over the coals if they are paying scant attention to what sixth formers (so almost adults) are sending to 11 year olds bypassing parental supervision.

Even if they started off with good intentions this is how serious safeguarding incidents occur.

What are you implying there? Because it sounds awfully like you’re trying to smear anyone who gives a crap about trans kids

I think if you asked for a show of hands, every last person who has commented on this thread about the safeguarding concerns that this particular newsletter breaches feels that way precisely BECAUSE they are concerned for all children, however they ‘identify’.

As a very recent ex-parent of the school here’s my perspective on this...

From experience, I know there are some power hungry parents within the school who will never be happy and actually end up causing instability within the school....when my daughter first joined they dismissed the head teacher for messaging a sixth former, however the sixth former just happened to be the daughter of one of the governors who I believe is also an employment lawyer - so basically it seems to me that they dismissed for other reasons but caught him out on a technicality. Gross misconduct. The school has an issue with high staff-turnover. Most of the teachers are good, only a few ever came across as being truly inspiring (one of these was also dismissed though ) however one member of staff is a know tyrant, I have no idea why she’s still there. None of it makes sense. To be honest, the school is a mess probably because of this constant meddling from parents. The school has always had a very volatile air about it, as if it could explode at any moment.

Gay, trans, bi, pan etc etc is quite a big thing amongst teens in all schools at the moment, I’m sure all parents of teens who are reading this thread will agree. So I believe the newsletter was genuinely intended to be helpful and informative. If girls are fully aware of the risks then perhaps it’ll put them off of actually doing it?

The only reason this article has come about in the first place is because some of these control-freak parents don’t like the idea that their little darling may be tempted to partake in such activities but what they fail to realise is that it’s happening everywhere, in all schools. It’s currently a big thing for teenagers. Personally I’d rather my daughter was fully informed about these things so she can make a fully enlightened decision that’s right for her.

This is all a bit of a non-issue for me to be honest. I’m just glad my daughter is now out of this and is now in a much more stable educational environment.

At 11. Informed about breast biding and sex at 11 by some other kids at the school?

Yes of course.

SplodgeWaddler You'd rather your little darling was fully informed about chemsex at age 11 so that she can make a fully enlightened decision that's right for her? Gosh. What a cool mum you are.

Chem sex and fisting, for eleven year old children?

It is not age appropriate information and bulk mailing the whole school is completely inappropriate.

The school has a duty of care to all children and this is a Safeguarding/ Child Protection issue.

The newsletter may well have been put together with best intentions by VI form students. The inaccuracies, misinformation and lack of judgement demonstrates a teaching and support need with the pupils involved.

Any time I see someone respond to a thread about safeguarding concerns with the words "little darling", I stop reading.

Engage without appeals to ridicule , or don't engage in discussion at all.

Why are sixth form kids distributing age inappropriate material anyway? Which member of staff is overseeing this?

Stampyfeet don’t put words into my mouth. READ what I wrote.

It made my blood boil to read this this morning. I'm so glad I have boys sometimes. Reminds me of the old Chinese culture of feet binding. If a school produced a newsletter for Chinese girls on how to do this 'safely' they'd be uproar but binding your breasts (in the middle of a pandemic which causes damage to the lungs) is absolutely fucking fine. There is not enough wine in the world to full that edge 😠😠

Personally I’d rather my daughter was fully informed about these things so she can make a fully enlightened decision that’s right for her.

Ok. Let’s repeat this.

I’d rather my daughter was fully informed

I agree. However. In terms of some of the areas of this newsletter, that is not happening. In fact, it is probably possible for the length and the style of the newsletter. Going to as young as 11 year old....

So, what part of answering ‘how to bind safely’ do you feel was handled appropriately here?

What part of explaining that both spouses in any marriage have to agree with the legal status of their marriage? And that one spouse NOT wanting to be in a same sex marriage because the change of legal sex will mean that, is not in any way abusive? Do you think that part was handled with sensitivity to any child whose parents might be going through that very situation?

But yes, while we’re on it, if they’re fully informed about chem sex then they’d probably choose not to do it! Likewise if they’re fully informed about the risks of casual sex, they’d choose to wait for the right person. We can’t wrap them up in cotton wool forever stampyfeet - they’ll be adults before we know it and need to be equipped to make theirs decisions for themselves.

For context, at school in the 80s I was fully informed about the risks of heroin and sharing dirty needles.....Nope. Never done heroin.

Splodgewaddler I did read what you wrote. "The only reason this article has come about in the first place is because some of these control-freak parents don’t like the idea that their little darling may be tempted to partake in such activities but what they fail to realise is that it’s happening everywhere, in all schools. It’s currently a big thing for teenagers. Personally I’d rather my daughter was fully informed about these things so she can make a fully enlightened decision that’s right for her." So when you said partake in these activities, do you only mean the binding, not the chemsex? I apologise for bringing in other content from the same newsletter if you were referring specifically to the article about breast binding. But you think it's control-freakery for parents not to want their daughters to bind their breasts?