Cultural differences around the age of getting married

[nickymanchester]

I just had a very interesting chat with my DH where he was telling me some of the things that his work colleagues had been telling him about what the expectations of marriage are where they are located.

I just had no idea that there were such differences. Am I naive to not have realised that these attitudes still exist?

By way of background, DH works for a large engineering company that have operations throughout the world and he was talking to some colleagues in the USA (specifically in the southeast US - that is North & South Carolina, Georgia, Alabama, Tennessee, Mississippi etc).

One colleague just mentioned that his daughter, who is in the final year of university, had just got married. My DH expressed surprise about that, with her being so young and still studying, but he said that this was quite normal in that part of the world.

Apparently their zoom meeting then got side tracked into a discussion on this and a couple of them said that in the Southeast USA, there still seems to be familial/societal pressure for girls to be married by the time they graduate college.

Another colleague also mentioned that his daughter had got married in the summer before her last year of college as well and since then had attended over 25 weddings of friends in similar situations over the last two years.

Another colleague, who is based in the midwest (places like Nebraska, Kansas etc) said it was a similar situation there with loads of weddings in the first year or two after college.

Perhaps I should have put this in AIBU, but AIBU to be surprised that there is still this sort of pressure or expectation in a western country in the 21st century?

Elsewhere in the US, things are obviously very different (or, at least, I presume they are) as the US Census Bureau says that the median age for first marriage for a woman is 27.9.

The average age for first marriage for a woman in the UK is 32.

Now, obviously, a lot fewer people are actually getting married these days and there is less pressure on people to get married.

However, for there to be a four year difference in age of first marriage between the UK and the US shows that there are some real cultural differences.

It's even more stark when you look at individual states. In many of the states in the southeast and midwest the median age of first marriage for a woman is 25 or 26.

Whereas in places like New York or Washington it is about 30 - a lot closer to the UK figure.

When my DH mentioned this conversation to me I didn't think much about it, but the fact that the age of first marriage in those states is so much lower than in the UK (and other parts of the US) show that, yes, this is actually still a thing in those parts of the US - an expectation that women are to be married off as soon as is reasonable.

Are we (or, at least, some Americans) still living in a world like that?

I'll also add. I didn't "save myself for marriage". My husband isn't religious. He's 6 years older than me so was 28 when we married.

The main reason I was so interested in marriage was that my parents weren't married. My dad left when I was young and he didn't have to give us a second thought. He just walked out. I felt that if we were well suited and intended to spend our lives together then we should be married. DH agreed. He also knew early on that if we were ever to have children I wouldn't agree unless we were married. We had a smallish wedding, not particularly expensive and it was amazing. 6 years on we're still happy and have 17 month old DS.

@Cameleongirl

I'm British now living on the East Coast in the US. I don't know anyone who married particularly young but one cultural difference that I've noticed is that while it's not uncommon to have children with a long-term partner in the UK, I literally don't know anyone who's done that here. I'm guessing legal rights have alot to do with it and as there's so little available benefits-wise (not even child allowance), parents really do need the legal safety net of marriage. It's also far more difficult to avoid paying child maintenance here.

Yes, the having a child with every 'partner' thing isn't as much of a thing there as the child support laws tend to be stricter with BOTH parties expected to support their children and a less comprehensive welfare state.

I know a lot more men in America who've had vasectomies to avoid procreating beyond what they can support. Here it appears to be a far less common choice.

Religion isn't it. Women are still expected to be virgins until marriage. The US culture is very different to Europe, and very different on the coasts to inland.

I disagree that there is a cultural expectation in the US that women will be virgins when they marry. Among some groups yes, but certainly not throughout the US. Even in the South, it is very common for couples to live together before marriage. I do agree that there is a general expectation that people will wait until they marry to have children.

I am really surprised the average age of a first marriage in the UK is 32? I haven’t been to any first weddings of anyone over 30. I’ve been to 3 weddings of brides over 30 but they were all second weddings. My friends and I were all married between 23-27

That’s my experience too, @SenecaFallsRedux. Living together is normal for child free couples, but people definitely marry before having children here.

I don't think it's really so much a religious thing now, either. It's more that both parties are legally expected to support their children as much as possible without reliance on the welfare state.

It strikes me as really disgusting here how NRPs are allowed to go for '50/50' so they don't pay maintenance. Really?

I have family in the US and 50/50 is common enough, but, BOTH parties are therefore e

sorry, expected to pay 50% or proportionally towards all expenses relating to the child. It's much cheaper to do this amicably than involving even mediators and court.

And this can go on for a long time, till they're 26.

I have one cousin who is long divorced. Both sons are adults but at uni and she and her ex both have to pay (they earn similarly) still.

They both moved on but there was no 'falling pregnant' with 'new partner' again as they couldn't afford to support more kids.

Some states even require the non resident parent to be named and/or varified by DNA so that he/she may be pursued for their share of support before welfare is granted, and of both parents, even.

In fact there was a serious case in Ohio, IIRC. A woman split with her partner, I can't remember, and was pregnant. She applied for state support and had to provide DNA samples for some reason. He came up as the father, but she did not come up as the mother. Come to find out, she was a chimera who'd probably absorbed a fraternal twin sister early on and had two sets of DNA.

The Uk is not always the same as rest of Europe eg only last year did Spain raise the age of marriage from 14 to 16. England has had 16 for years.In England it was in 1929 it was raised to 16 (until then - 1929 being the yar my mother was born) it was age of puberty and for legal purposes that was age 12 for girls and 14 for boys. So 1929 was a bit change in England for those things.

The no sex before marriage crowd is a very small percentage of the American population. They get a lot of media attention precisely because they are seen as odd at this point.

Yes, if the custodial parent has to resort to welfare, the state will often pursue the negligent parent for repayment.

My son is 26 and two of his best friends from US high school were married in their early 20's I was very surprised. We lived in California.

"In fact there was a serious case in Ohio, IIRC. A woman split with her partner, I can't remember, and was pregnant. She applied for state support and had to provide DNA samples for some reason. He came up as the father, but she did not come up as the mother. Come to find out, she was a chimera who'd probably absorbed a fraternal twin sister early on and had two sets of DNA."

Yes. You can watch videos on this on YouTube. It was extremely stressful for the mother.

"I do think men are in general much more prone to behaving like teenagers into their 40s 50s than they used to be."

Yes, but if women could, I think we would to. It's just that we can't biologically. I do wonder if advancements in science (eg cheaper to freeze embryos, able to delay menopause) will make that more common.

"As I say, the actual level of adherence to such beliefs as "saving for marriage" did vary."

What I hear about online dating from friends is that they cannot get the man to wait just a few dates, let alone for marriage, so I'm quite surprised it's possible.

@Checkingout811

I am really surprised the average age of a first marriage in the UK is 32? I haven’t been to any first weddings of anyone over 30. I’ve been to 3 weddings of brides over 30 but they were all second weddings. My friends and I were all married between 23-27

I think my friend may have been 29 with her uni boyfriend and that would be the youngest. It does depend on your group. None of my friends had children before early thirties either whereas my parents' generation married their uni/college boyfriend/girlfriend and started having children in their 20s. The ages of marriage and children are going up in general. A good thing overall I think as people are more mature and ready for such a commitment. (Does mean fewer children though).

@HalcyonSea

I've seen some interesting discussions on the pushing back of people marrying and having kids essentially resulting in people maturing later.

Which then leads people to say, well people that age are too immature to marry. Similarly with people having their first jobs later, taking on other adult roles later.

Fascinating. Do you have a link to the research please?

Nope. You'll have to look into it yourself.

It has to do with experiences driving brain maturity rather than being somehow independent of them.

Maturity certainly varies. My granny married aged 29 in 1928. My mother married in 1953 at 23 but had been teaching full time for 4 years and did not have children until she was 32 because my father was a medical student and they needed the two salaries etc to buy their first house - very long delay in having babies there. I married at 21 ( I was not only a graduate but had also finished by then my post grad law) someone who was 27. So I was the first to be having children i my 20s on that side of the family since my great granny who started her large family in the 1890s - she married at 17, widowed with 2 children at age 20 and remarried at 21 and had 9 more children of which 8 of those and the other 2 survived to adulthood - she had her babies over a 22 year period.

"I married at 21 ( I was not only a graduate but had also finished by then my post grad law)"

How did that happen? Are you Sheldon from BBT?

"she married at 17, widowed with 2 children at age 20 and remarried at 21 and had 9 more children of which 8 of those and the other 2 survived to adulthood - she had her babies over a 22 year period"

A very good example of how early marriage can potentially mean a large number of children. Still common in less developed parts of the world.

@Checkingout811

I am really surprised the average age of a first marriage in the UK is 32? I haven’t been to any first weddings of anyone over 30. I’ve been to 3 weddings of brides over 30 but they were all second weddings. My friends and I were all married between 23-27

Out of maybe 25-30 weddings of friends, only 3 were when the couple were below 30 (first marriages).

@Xenia

The Uk is not always the same as rest of Europe eg only last year did Spain raise the age of marriage from 14 to 16. England has had 16 for years.In England it was in 1929 it was raised to 16 (until then - 1929 being the yar my mother was born) it was age of puberty and for legal purposes that was age 12 for girls and 14 for boys. So 1929 was a bit change in England for those things.

Yes. But that was over 80 years ago....

Nope. You'll have to look into it yourself.

Why should I spend time researching a claim from some random person I don't know if they can't even provide an initial link to their source of data? Like most people I have other demands on my time and am not going to spend hours trying to research every claim of scientific findings that's made on the internet that seems vaguely interesting to me unless evidence is provided that it's vaguely plausible, before I decide to spend my time delving deeper. I would guess most people feel the same so your attitude stinks.

Yes, my great granny was a long time ago (I have been doing family tree work which is interesting including how many children people had - I have bought the birth certs (and deaths when the babies died) of about 40 great aunts and uncles - every one of those 4 great grandmothers of mine had between 9 and 11 children. The saddest was the one where only 3 survived of 9 to age 21)

I don't know what Sheldon from BBT is - I presume BBT is a reality show. I changed schools age 10 and was quite bright to missed the last year of primary school so did A levels at 17 and went to university read Law at 17. I graduated aged 20. I did my post grad law finals year then. I got married after those exams when I was 21 and started my first job in London as a trainee lawyer aged 21. We had our first baby when I was 22 (I worked full time and took 2 weeks holiday to have her). I qualified as a solicitor when I was 23. I changed law firms then in London and had baby no. 2 when I was 24 and baby no. 3 when I was 26. (We bought our first house together just before baby no. 1 when I was 21 but my husband was 27 and he had had a small house in NW England so we sold that and bought a little 3 bed terraced in outer London zone 5, the area where I still live. We had twins later - 4tjh baby was therefore 4/5)