Cultural differences around the age of getting married

[nickymanchester]

I just had a very interesting chat with my DH where he was telling me some of the things that his work colleagues had been telling him about what the expectations of marriage are where they are located.

I just had no idea that there were such differences. Am I naive to not have realised that these attitudes still exist?

By way of background, DH works for a large engineering company that have operations throughout the world and he was talking to some colleagues in the USA (specifically in the southeast US - that is North & South Carolina, Georgia, Alabama, Tennessee, Mississippi etc).

One colleague just mentioned that his daughter, who is in the final year of university, had just got married. My DH expressed surprise about that, with her being so young and still studying, but he said that this was quite normal in that part of the world.

Apparently their zoom meeting then got side tracked into a discussion on this and a couple of them said that in the Southeast USA, there still seems to be familial/societal pressure for girls to be married by the time they graduate college.

Another colleague also mentioned that his daughter had got married in the summer before her last year of college as well and since then had attended over 25 weddings of friends in similar situations over the last two years.

Another colleague, who is based in the midwest (places like Nebraska, Kansas etc) said it was a similar situation there with loads of weddings in the first year or two after college.

Perhaps I should have put this in AIBU, but AIBU to be surprised that there is still this sort of pressure or expectation in a western country in the 21st century?

Elsewhere in the US, things are obviously very different (or, at least, I presume they are) as the US Census Bureau says that the median age for first marriage for a woman is 27.9.

The average age for first marriage for a woman in the UK is 32.

Now, obviously, a lot fewer people are actually getting married these days and there is less pressure on people to get married.

However, for there to be a four year difference in age of first marriage between the UK and the US shows that there are some real cultural differences.

It's even more stark when you look at individual states. In many of the states in the southeast and midwest the median age of first marriage for a woman is 25 or 26.

Whereas in places like New York or Washington it is about 30 - a lot closer to the UK figure.

When my DH mentioned this conversation to me I didn't think much about it, but the fact that the age of first marriage in those states is so much lower than in the UK (and other parts of the US) show that, yes, this is actually still a thing in those parts of the US - an expectation that women are to be married off as soon as is reasonable.

Are we (or, at least, some Americans) still living in a world like that?

CousinKrispy yes, the SC repeal of its anti-miscegenation provision of the state constitution (1998) passed with 62 percent of the vote, so sadly quite a few people voted against it.

My own state of Georgia repealed its anti-miscegenation law in 1972.

SC above meaning South Carolina, not Supreme Court.

I do think that generally marriage is synonymous with loss of independence for many women. How many married women have lived on their own, financed themselves entirely and run a household? I have had a couple of friends get divorced recently and the women are struggling - with managing every aspect of their finances, house and car.

I was married and always earned more than my husband, but I felt disempowered when we divorced because I was unused to dealing with some aspects of house and car maintenance, insurance etc. Of course now being divorced for many years I'm totally capable of all these things, I've travelled all over the world on my own, moved house, sorted out my mortgage and all my bills for house and car, can sort out DIY and broadband you name it and I've found myself helping my friends adjust to their new life - they can get quite afraid and anxious about it. If you go from home, to college to marriage you've probably never done any of those things on for yourself. And fear of it can definitely make women stay in bad marriages.

I went to a uni in the SE states and lived there for nearly 10 years. I'd say a good chunk of female students were definitely on the look out for a husband during their college years, but I'd say that was about a third, more definitely didn't want that. I married at 37 but I was last by a good way out of my friends at both sides of the Atlantic.

@StrictlyAFemaleFemale

In Denmark you get ritually humiliated if you are 25 or 30 and not married. One you get attacked with pepper and one with cinnamon but I cant remember which is which. Not unusual for sculptures (oil barrels or old cars) to appear in your driveway announcing to the world you are 30 and not married.

The average age has risen to 32 for women and 34 for men so this tradition strikes me as really odd.

These are joke things in Denmark now though aren't they. There's a St Catherine tradition in France for women who are unmarried at 25, but it's an old tradition, not something that's taken seriously now.

"Ive worked with people in the UK who are very adherent and married young before cohabiting (don't know them well enough to know of they abstained from sex as well, but I presume so)."

Which denomination? Because this is quite rare in the UK now. I know a lot of people who are practising Christians, but they live their love lives like mainstream society.

@3CCC

I'm reading a book called " How to be Single" by Liz Ticcillo part novel part self help book. And this girl travels all over the world finding out about why people in different are single. And the country's societal expectations about relationships and marriage

Well worth a read

You need to read 'All the Single Ladies'.It's about the growth of unmarried women worldwide and the later age at marriage, with a particular focus on the US.

@newtb

Back in the 70s most women got married at 21-23. It was quite usual to get married just after leaving university.

Which is why I was quite surprised at the people on another thread complaining about Lady Di getting married at 20. It was reasonably normal in 1981.

@NativityDreaming

I don’t think it is that big a deal. I thought you were going to be pointing out girls getting married as teenagers. What a non issue.

Apart from a mature student, I didn't know anyone married at university. And that was 25 years ago!

@NiceGerbil

The 17 yo one could happen here i of course

I'm surprised that posters aren't surprised or anything by this. I was very surprised when I learned about it.

I'm not surprised there are teen brides in the US because I knew it was legal in some states.

I'm more surprised that marrying while still at university is normal.

We have religious people in my distant extended family and yes generally they get married younger.

In my friendship group, most of us got married in mid 20s. (I was nearer 30). We are all friends through Church. The extent of "adherence", as it were, varied, along with what we'd got up to as teenagers, but it was still felt that being married was important before living together and certainly before having a family. The last one of us to get married is with a non-Christian. Nice bloke but his social circle were of the opinion that marrying before 30 ish was weird, so they didn't. They don't have kids yet either whereas mostly the rest of us are done with babies and have primary aged children. It's kind of sad that she won't go through the baby stage with her closest friends but they are a great couple as very happy together so it'll work out just fine. Plus we'll all get to coo over a lovely baby then hand it back.

I'm surprised by Gwenhwyfar thinking it's quite rare to be this way. Certainly within society as a whole it is, but within Christian circles, IME, it's the norm. I've moved away now but my friends from my new church are all the same. Mid 30s, married with kids in primary school. Didn't live with husband before marriage, mostly didn't sleep with them either.

(I attend a modern style church - electric guitars and drums in a rented hall style, rather than CofE or the like.)

"marriage at 16 only with the consent of the parents"

How would you react if someone you knew got married at 16? I presume it's incredibly rare.

@Gwenhwyfar thanks for the suggestion, will check it out

" but within Christian circles, IME, it's the norm"

What do you mean by Christian circles though? Evangelical?
Because people who belong to the mainstream denominations in the UK live more or less like anyone else afaik.

I grew up in the southeast USA (decades ago) and it was quite common for girls to marry right out of high school. My closest friend married right after college graduation. It was more cultural than religious. My niece graduated from college last December and is marrying this month. (In her case, it is religious). I guess that I've never considered marrying right out of college as marrying young and am rather surprised to hear it viewed that way. Speaking of college, I had a roommate whose parents married at 15/16. Now that's what I consider (too) young.

@LibertyMole

‘Most people I know are completely different to the person they were in their early 20s by the time they hit 30. Different priorities and interests, for better or worse.’

Don’t psychologists claim personality is fixed in your early twenties?

Either way, it is all rather secondary to the when is safest to have kids, and that is in your twenties.

If they do claim that as a blanket rule, they are wrong!

@BittyBatHats

Honestly I'm not sure I've stopped changing. I'm very different to who I was in my 20s vs 30s vs 40s. If you find the right partner I don't see why not get married and have kids in your 20s. It gives you the best chance of having healthy children. I thought the number one predictor of a marriage lasting was the women's level of education?

Really? So it lasts better if they are more educated, or less?

I've seen some interesting discussions on the pushing back of people marrying and having kids essentially resulting in people maturing later.

Which then leads people to say, well people that age are too immature to marry. Similarly with people having their first jobs later, taking on other adult roles later.

Fascinating. Do you have a link to the research please?

@Devlesko

My dsis was married at 16 with the help of an aunt (sort of matchmaker) she'd asked for it though of course. !9 is on the shelf, unless of course you have been encouraged to gain an education, which is quite acceptable in this day and age. We are also virgins when we marry, rarely are girls given the opportunity to be with boys without a chaperone. This is usually an older family member. If you have a lot of brothers they won't come near you.

Ah. It appears your time machine has malfunctioned. This is the 21st century, not the 18th century.

@NiceGerbil

Not read all the posts sorry. Has anyone mentioned that child marriage is legal in some states under certain circs?

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/200-000-children-married-us-15-years-child-marriage-child-brides-new-jersey-chris-christie-a7830266.html

They count 16 and 17 as child which is in line with WHO etc but also there are children younger than that, usually girls to older men.

EG
'The youngest wedded were three 10-year-old girls in Tennessee who married men aged 24, 25 and 31 in 2001. The youngest groom was an 11-year-old who married a 27-year-old woman in the same state in 2006.'

'Children as young as 12 were granted marriage licences in Alaska, Louisiana and South Carolina, while 11 other states allowed 13-year-olds to wed.

More than 1,000 children aged 14 or under were granted marriage licences.'

'A 14-year-old girl married a 74-year-old man in Alabama, while a 17-year-old wed a 65-year-old groom in Idaho.'

Bloody hell. That is horrific.

@SenecaFallsRedux

The problem with child marriage and federal laws is that marriage is one of the matters that is constitutionally left to the states. Loving v. Virginia involved another part of the Constitution so that gave grounds for a ruling with national application.

More states are passing laws against child marriage. But if you want to compare to the UK; 16 year olds can marry without parental consent in Scotland; I don't think any state in the US allows 16 year olds to marry without parental or judicial consent. The problem is that a few states allow people under the age of 16 to marry.

Otherwise known as legalised paedophilia, parents sanctioning it actually makes it much worse. It isn't just an old irrelevant quirk on the statute books, a PP posted links of this actually happening to small children in a country that pretends to be about democracy and human rights etc.

@Bouledeneige

I do think that generally marriage is synonymous with loss of independence for many women. How many married women have lived on their own, financed themselves entirely and run a household? I have had a couple of friends get divorced recently and the women are struggling - with managing every aspect of their finances, house and car.

I was married and always earned more than my husband, but I felt disempowered when we divorced because I was unused to dealing with some aspects of house and car maintenance, insurance etc. Of course now being divorced for many years I'm totally capable of all these things, I've travelled all over the world on my own, moved house, sorted out my mortgage and all my bills for house and car, can sort out DIY and broadband you name it and I've found myself helping my friends adjust to their new life - they can get quite afraid and anxious about it. If you go from home, to college to marriage you've probably never done any of those things on for yourself. And fear of it can definitely make women stay in bad marriages.

What kind of marriages are they if the men are doing all of those things though? That sounds infantilising.

@HoneysuckIejasmine

In my friendship group, most of us got married in mid 20s. (I was nearer 30). We are all friends through Church. The extent of "adherence", as it were, varied, along with what we'd got up to as teenagers, but it was still felt that being married was important before living together and certainly before having a family. The last one of us to get married is with a non-Christian. Nice bloke but his social circle were of the opinion that marrying before 30 ish was weird, so they didn't. They don't have kids yet either whereas mostly the rest of us are done with babies and have primary aged children. It's kind of sad that she won't go through the baby stage with her closest friends but they are a great couple as very happy together so it'll work out just fine. Plus we'll all get to coo over a lovely baby then hand it back.

I'm surprised by Gwenhwyfar thinking it's quite rare to be this way. Certainly within society as a whole it is, but within Christian circles, IME, it's the norm. I've moved away now but my friends from my new church are all the same. Mid 30s, married with kids in primary school. Didn't live with husband before marriage, mostly didn't sleep with them either.

(I attend a modern style church - electric guitars and drums in a rented hall style, rather than CofE or the like.)

How depressing.

Halcyon have a Google. If we're talking UK then certainly things have shifted.

Children are not as independent as they were years ago. The law has changed now to say you're not allowed to leave school at 16 generally:

'England
You can leave school on the last Friday in June if you’ll be 16 by the end of the summer holidays.

You must then do one of the following until you’re 18:

stay in full-time education, for example at a college
start an apprenticeship or traineeship
spend 20 hours or more a week working or volunteering, while in part-time education or training'

Young people esp men seem to stay at home for years. House prices/ comfort/ not being expected to leave-

'Nearly a million more young adults are living with their parents than was the case two decades ago, a study has found.'

And so on etc.

Google it. I thought this was well known tbh.