Trans Widows Escape Committee 5: And so it continues...

[TinselAngel]

Welcome to thread 5. A virtual prize for anyone who can guess the geeky sci fi reference in the thread title.

This is a support area for women who are, or have been, in unhappy relationships with male partners who are transitioning, or exploring their "gender identity"

If you are in that position-

1. You are not alone
2. It is not a situation that you should be expected to tolerate, let alone celebrate.
3. There is always a way out, if you want it. The thread is called Escape Committee for that reason

Remember: women talking to each other is a powerful weapon!

In four years we have gone from starting the first thread, to launching a website, to be invited to give evidence to a government inquiry, which is pretty spectacular when you think about it.

Thanks to all the women who have told their stories and particularly to those who have stuck around to help others. Thanks also to @socialworker222 who remains nice cop, to my stern cop.

Do say hello to start the thread off!

You are phenomenal, @TinselAngel!

Hello! Reaching out after 18 years with my AGP. Can you even believe that, almost 20 years! Found this group almost on accident and began to cry as I read through the posts. Never have I seen a page dedicated to us wives and girlfriends! My point in reaching out is that after many years of being together I just don't think I can do it anymore. Long story short. We met in 2005. He told me almost immediately. Considered it a kink and moved on with our lives. I have always been open minded in the bed too...but had no idea lol Over the years, DD has always had a bad attitude, was inflexible, had practically no sex life (and when it happened it was so bad) for the first 10 years. Would dress up on the weekend when our then roommate, his brother, was not around. Then in about 2016 I told him that I wanted him to go to the dr for his IBS. I told him that maybe not being his true self was contributing to the gut issues. It was at that time that we went on a not so fun journey with him almost transitioning (after saying forever he never would) as his dysphoria was raging. He did all the things you read about here; push the goal posts, dress up but not want to do the womanly things, lie to me, hide clothing and items from me, emanate me. Told me once he was considering hormones and breasts. Keep in mind I never told a soul during the first tens years (did tell mom and sisters eventually). The process was soo stressful. I ultimately got diagnosed with an autoimmune disease, very likely triggered by the long term stress of being in this relationship. I told him it was dressing up or the marriage. So of course, he denied everything from that point. Said he would stop it all blah blah blah I even asked him to throw it all way once and he looked me right in my eyes and said NO. During those years I also began having an affair (wanting my my body naturally craves and searching for a way to meet MY unmet needs and wanting to see arousal because of me not because of them thinking about themselves). Nothing seriously emotional, but good God it felt so good to have a man be aroused by me not because he wants to be me. I eventually confessed. He forgave me since he had "wronged" me too and we were even. Well course he forgave me for the transgression, considering I am his only tether to a life he wants the world to think he is living. I have since stopped (altho I am so tempted to not end things) but dd's never ending games haven't. Just Sunday he asked if he could wear a sports bra around the house. He is wearing more and more casual woman looking athleisure daily and I know my daughters will soon start to recognize something is going on. Not that I would mind ultimately being honest with them, but if it is what he says it is, just crossdressing, then why do even need to tell them anything at all. Anyway, I know in my heart of hearts even though I do love him and he is my friend and children's father and an excellent provider ( I also work tho) that a dissolution will be very sad and hard on my entire family. Anyway, I want to do but never seem to get the courage to follow though. How do do this?????? He says he would never transition but why do I struggle with that being his truth? I hate putting limits or yeses or nos on what anther human can do to be happy but dang, what am I supposed to do?!?! Thanks for reading. Sincerely, a very very exhausted human being

The question is- is this how you want to spend the rest of your life?

@TinselAngel no. But then fear locks me right where I am standing. The list of fears is long it's sad. I am just sad to put my kiddos through divorce :( Worried i am not making the right decision for them since DD isn't THAT bad. Like he doesn't mentally abuse me (well i don't think so anyway even tho the whole thing feels like a full mind fuck sometimes), he's not doing things online (that I know of anyway), he doesn't spend gobs of money (but does spend some). DD says it is just small part of the many things that make him up. He is an excellent provider and we have built a life. IDK, I want this so bad but when I go to do it, he talks me out of it and I end up feeling so sad and that it is not the right decision. It like I lost trust in my ability to make a decision :(

"DD" means "dear daughter" on mumsnet by the way!

This is so sad. What would you tell your daughter to do in your shoes?

Gah, my apologies, i knew that. Prob typing so fast! So many thoughts coming out lol!

I would tell her to leave know what I know now lol Ultimately, I know my Mom wants me to leave but won't say it, she needs it to be my decision. I just don't like that she wants me to stick it out because we are comfortable financially where she never was.

One reason you are so hesitant is that you have been mindfucked but good, for many years, and will be, as long as you are in his orbit. The whole situation is rife with mental abuse, especially if you are keeping his secret. Just because he's not hitting you doesn't mean you aren't being abused! You've been conditioned by this abuse over many years, and that's the reason you are rationalizing (he makes good money, he doesn't spend TOO much, etc., etc.). Meanwhile, you body is screaming at you to get out: that autoimmune disease is not the only physical manifestation you can expect if you stay. He has exactly the situation he wants, and surely you know by know he's not going to do anything to make it better for you.

Tinsel is right: how do you want to spend the rest of your life? In this maelstrom?

@WalkedAway I do keep his secret. My sisters, mothers and boss know. They take their que's from me. If I am ok they are and vice versa. Except for my boss. He wants me to leave. Crazy how hard hard it is to walk away from familiarity, even when we know it is bad for us. How do I make the rationalizing stop? I do not want to spend the rest of my life like this.

In my case, the rationalizing was due to a number of factors: the length of our marriage (32 years at his trans bomb drop; I left after 35 years), worry about our son (I didn't want him to go through the mental anguish I did), worry about money (could I make it on my own?), not wanting to spend my elderly years without backup (I was 64 when I left), fear of life on my own even though I am an independent person with my own job, my own retirement, my own interests, and, above all, a foolish hope that maybe, just maybe, he would come to his senses. I really, really, really, didn't want to have to leave my marriage. I wanted it to be the marriage I thought it could be, if only...

I think above all I was afraid to face the crushing fact that he loved his secret life and his "woman persona" and his fetish more than he did me. I provided him safety and security, as well as managing his household, and he didn't want to let that go, but I realized that I was hoping and rationalizing my life away for a person who didn't love me for myself, only for my use to him, and who would never change.

Once I could see and admit all those things, I was more able to face my fears. I was also able to stop making excuses for him and start seeing that his words were never matched by his actions.

I don't know what it will take for you. One thing that helped me was distance--actual physical distance away from him. It was a great help to being able to put my life in perspective while not subject to his distorting force.

CPS want to make it that refusing 'money for transition' is a sign of domestic abuse. This is hideous.
www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/domestic-abuse

I've just seen that, there must be some way we can challenge it.

My experience was his endless demands for money that would have left me short for bills and food, repeated demands that I take out loans for him, and him stealing our belongings to sell them. I guess from his POV, I was 'financially abusive'.
Is the partner or mother of a coke addict financially abusive when she refuses money for drugs?

Omg just seen the CPS bile.

Jesus fucking Christ

Any other situation, trying to reach a joint decision over significant purchases is the norm. Man who want tits? Crack on cos if your wife says no it's abuse.

What fucking planet.

I have insufficient words for how fucked up and disgraceful that official line is.

@WalkedAway I am going to do it this time. This will be my 5th attempt at ending things since 2018. I think this time he will know I am serious. I have given it my all this last year ( a year of rebuilding trust after what I did to him....what I did lol) and watched the same cycle yet again (the full stopping of everything, the slow starting, the escalation, the asking for permission, the need for time alone, needing fem in bed to enjoy himself, being defensive towards me because he self conscious and afraid to lose me to love bombing when I call him out, ect). You should see all of the things I have done to "heal" my hashimotos. Literally removed every toxic thing.....except one...hmmmm. I hate to think of him in that light since I do not hate him, but I simply do not think I can heal in the environment that made me sick. This is such a wonderful page. Even the one fb group I was in really tried to be supportive of both sides, but lost a lot of members as the group was supporting the really bad ones. I have to leave on a work trip for a week in a few weeks while the children will be w their gma (so dh can have some time alone) that same week. i was thinking of leaving him a letter. Give him sometime to cool off. He is just so very possessive of me that I do get a little scared. I mean, i don't think he'd do anything to harm me, I just know he is emotional about us. I do feel bad. His family would likely disown him and my family is his family. The women, at least, knew and accepted him; ugh just another rationalization to stay. Ugh, I do not look forward to all of the emotions. I wish I could just pack it up and move lol

The real trick is not whether he knows you're serious; it's that you know that you are serious.

Good luck, and strength to you. Life is very much better on the the other side.

Well only a few days after my post and I am already weakening. Things like the following cross my mind: Isn't every marriage full of ups and downs, isn't it always something anyway; mine is not as bad as the others, if I could just somehow accept this side we could all live happily after after..I mean I should be used to it by now (18 years later), he says if i leave he'll never change his ways anyway (as in not transitioning but def being a proud- at home- cross dresser). Then I will get flashes of all the bits of drama over the years and he'll say but yes, weren't there so many good ones too?? Was it all that bad?? I think I want to avoid all of the ugly feelings that will surly come along with all of this. I KNOW this is what needs to happen. How can I forget all of the years I have been trying to leave. How can I have wanted to leave all of these years and then can't do it when the rubber meets the road. Am I really in it that deep that i cannot see through he trees??

Of course you can see. It's just a big feeling doing it. As big a feeling as going into a marriage.

I remember the moment I printed the divorce forms and signed them clearer than getting married.

But once step one is taken it's easier. You have already mentally left it's just friction keeping you in place, a little push like writing the letter and printing it, feel the big feeling, and it's done and on to the arrangements for your freedom to live the rest of your life away from this mess.

Just take that step forward.

@Hepwo thanks for the encouragement. I wrote out the letter. Haven't typed it out though. I think what is hard in my situation is that he's not doing some of the abhorrent behaviors that would be a HELL NO from me. But the need to express himself in amore feminine way around the home def in our bedroom still make me uncomfortable. So although he's not transitioning and promises me he won't, his behaviors aren't sending that same message and that is enough for me to look outside my four walls for what is missing, sadly.

I hate to think of him in that light since I do not hate him, but I simply do not think I can heal in the environment that made me sick.

Remember this.

@Hepwo I do and I keep trying all these healing processes just to make sure it is not him. Nothing works. But I think I have always known. I just ignore it. I am so sad for our daughters too. They are non the wiser and enjoy a very simple happy life. But they don't get the best version of what I could be. Ugh, i get so caught up in all of the what ifs versus focusing on what i need. Why is it so hard for me to do what is best for me, instead of everyone else :(

It's not.

You are just on the brink and gravity is holding your feet to the ground.

Think of it like skiing or diving. No one's brain really wants to let them go head first.

You just have to overcome the physical inertia your brain is signaling your body and.....let go.

My ex also decided not to "transition," after being gung-ho about it at first. They don't go ahead with it because they are cowards. Instead of having the courage to "live their truth," my ex set up a set of circumstances in the home that he said was a compromise that could satisfy us both. That was guilt inducing, and a way to manipulate me into accepting his acting out in the house. It sounds to me as if your spouse is doing something similar.
The thing is, the reason you are having such a difficult time leaving is that you have been immersed in this manipulative situation for years, and it has had its effect of undermining your resolve and your confidence in your own decisions. Instead of asking, "why am I unable to do this [leave]?" a self-undermining move that is the product of the years of being subjected to his undermining you.

As for the children, I read something that reframed the whole situation for me, and that is, "You don't stay for the children; you leave for the children." You leave to remove them from a situation in which their mother is actively and subtly undermined. You leave to remove them from a situation in which their father is abusing the family with his behavior. You leave to demonstrate to them that this is what a person who values herself does. You model strength, of resolve and of character. You leave because to do so allows you to live your values. The last thing you want to do is to model for your daughters the kind of self-undermining that you have learned to do to yourself while in this marriage.

No one can convince you to leave. You have to come to it on your own time. For me it took learning about the behavioral patterns of narcissists, reading the profile of autogynephilia, with its characteristic expression of wounded narcissism when challenged, and understanding how a closeted life warps the personality of those who live in the closet, leading to pathological compartmentalization, a lack of empathy, and a sense of entitlement.

Don't give up on yourself. You can get there. Because you have had to be strong to withstand what you have, you have the strength in you to act on your own and your children's behalf.

...you leave for the children , how true. Sometimes that is the best route to a peaceful and stable home. My adult daughter thanked me recently for leaving her father. She has met someone whose mother stayed in the same situation and that home is unhappy and turbulent and financially unstable and the child doesn't go home much because of it. So don't worry about generalisations about the right thing to do; there are no rules. For me the self-absorption and putting of self before children, along with a raft of broken agreements and boundaries (there is no problem with couples agreeing reasonable behaviour in many areas by the way), made my decision easy. Interesting that you say you don't want this for your future. It's very difficult to compare a known to an unknown. But you do have to accept this will continue and probably escalate as seems to have started, and how you will have a worthwhile and happy life yourself alongside that.

@WalkedAway Wow, well if this wasn't the realist shit I have heard. Refreshing. Honestly, I couldn't tell from my position if my situation was abusive or not. I always figured abuse would be obvious. Only when I am away from him to I feel the weight lift. I guess that should have been a sign. I grew up with a lot of uncertainty and I guess w dh, he was a beast I knew. But I am really seeing the cycles now. Your theory about children def resonates. I typed my letter out. I am a very strong woman who wants and can do this. I get closer w every round of the bs.

@socialworker222 known to an unknown. Truth here. Yes, this is a reality i know. If i stay, I know what the rest of life will look like. I have finally started seeing what good could come versus the bad. Thank you for sheading light on that aspect.