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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

AskHumza

55 replies

Sexnotgender · 27/04/2021 16:03

Excellent questions being asked of Humza on twitter.

I believe he’s blocking women rather than answering.

Do any of our Muslim members know the answer to the question in the photo as Humza hasn’t answered it.

AskHumza
OP posts:
Ereshkigalangcleg · 27/04/2021 23:35

Missed this, will have a look!

NancyDrawed · 28/04/2021 06:56

That is, indeed, an excellent question!

aweegc · 28/04/2021 07:28

I don't really see why that's such a good question. Far better in my mind would be to ask about the practicing Muslim woman having being excluded from exercise because the single sex swimming sessions or team sport is no longer single sex, or about the practicing Jewish orthodox or Muslim woman who requested a woman provide intimate care and then have a transwoman appear.

The question asked can easily be twisted to appear to be attacking a religion, which in this instance where "bigot" is the standard (veiled) response, is essentially walking straight into that response.

Sexnotgender · 28/04/2021 09:05

Yours are also excellent questions and ones I’m sure Humza will be delighted to answer.

OP posts:
NiceGerbil · 29/04/2021 00:32

Why is it bigoted?

It's quite well known that some religions have different rules for men and women. Most of the main ones in fact. And that they may vary a bit between different strands of the religion but are a thing.

The fact that women and men worship separately is just that. A fact.

This man has been instrumental in implementing a law which caused a lot of heavily reported debate, concerns etc. He's a politician. He defended his view and the law is now in force. Also fact.

The question takes something that has for a long time had separation for women and men and that the minister for justice will be familiar with. And is subject to protection (religion). And so can separate men and women for xyz same as plenty of other mainstream religions do.

And said, put your money where your mouth is.

I don't understand why you think stating a well known fact about a religion and asking a question is in any way an attack on the religion.

The exact same question was asked when Ireland did it, whether trans men would be welcome to join the priesthood.

Reasonable question. Very reasonable. Like I say, put your money where your mouth is.

Answer to the latter is no, there's an exception in the law.

Same as in English law hereditary peerages etc which still go to the oldest son (!) have a bit which say actually trans men aren't men when it comes to that.

Funny. Isn't it. Revealing. Also strange that the activists are not going after those transphobic exceptions.

And anyway. The thing now seems to be to call anyone who disagrees with you a racist etc so, seems little point in rejecting a pointed question because of that.

SmokedDuck · 29/04/2021 00:45

Sex changes aren't particularly uncommon in some Muslim countries, I'd not assume it's a gotcha question. Nor would I assume that he'd approve of the answer if they would differentiate.

But if you ask about actual people in actual situations that will actually impact them negatively, those things don't matter.

NiceGerbil · 29/04/2021 01:16

I think it's because it's seen as bad to make it personal.

What so many miss is that to women, this is all personal. It's not theoretical. When a woman says I'm worried it's not a vague concern from a distance. It's up close and personal.

Just occurred to me... Do lots of men not get that? And the answer is obvious, no they don't.

DeepThinkingGirl · 29/04/2021 01:27

Seems a bit like a loaded question... with the intention of a gotcha..

Why Muslims? Is it just easy to kick them while their down? Because they’re so exposed to public scrutiny so it’s ok to do a social experiment?

Muslims are targeted as a minority group. These questions aren’t specific to Muslims, so the specific curiousity directed at Muslims speaks volumes.

NiceGerbil · 29/04/2021 01:31

Because he's a Muslim. It's asking him whether he would walk the walk in his own life, in his own religion.

Is that a serious question?

Did you think Islam was asked about at random?!!

NiceGerbil · 29/04/2021 01:45

'so the specific curiousity directed at Muslims speaks volumes.'

This sort of thing.

You can't ask that.
It's islamophobic to ask that.
Implication: you're racist
Result aimed for: conversation etc stopped. Also. Lovely glow of having fronted up to bad people and named them as (insert thing it's bad to be)

Engagement with actual conversation. Nil.

Expand. Why is it racist/ islamophobic to ask the architect of a highly contraversial law if he would walk the walk in real life, when it came to a sex based norm in his personal religious life.

If he wouldn't he's a massive hypocrite, no?

If he would... It would be interesting to find out what his plans are to address any discrimination.

He doesn't answer. He can't, can he.

The fact he said that having a GRC would NOT mean the automatic first place for a person going to prison would be the one indicated by the GRC... kind of shows he's pushed all this through and he doesn't even understand some basic stuff that is already in place.

He deserves to be challenged.

If it's not fair to bring someone's religious background into anything then it's bigoted for women to be concerned about eg JRM who says as a Catholic he's absolutely against abortion under any circumstances. Asking him what he would do if it was an early pregnancy and his wife would die otherwise is according to your logic, bigoted.

Nope sorry.

Convince me.

DeepThinkingGirl · 29/04/2021 02:05

Ok sorry in honest truth I don’t know Humza and what he stands for in terms of this topic

If he was already leading the scenes on this debate then yeh ok he should be challenged

NiceGerbil · 29/04/2021 02:10

I'm interested then in why you decided to post a pretty strong post (implying islamophobia) when you didn't know what the context was.

I'm honestly interested because it's not something I would do, but lots of people do seem to. What was it that you read/ thought that made you think right ho racists I'll tell them off, iyswim.

Sorry that's probably not well worded!

DeepThinkingGirl · 29/04/2021 02:27

I’m Muslim and I’ve seen Islam and Muslims randomly dragged into conversations including on this board.. and frankly fed up with it.

Like I said I don’t know the story and what he stands for.. but Op was asking for opinions of Muslims. I’m one, and in the grand scheme of things, I really find this question annoying.

Because the predominant narrative on this board is quite undermining to us generally.

Feminism board hasn’t been great at all in being inclusive to Muslims and yes I do at times find it islamophobic. So it almost feels like we are being used to someone else’s agenda that doesn’t speak to us.

I do benefit a lot from this board. But yeh, I’d like to keep religion out of it as I don’t think it’s very respected on here.

HTH.

NiceGerbil · 29/04/2021 02:32

Ah ok yes that makes perfect sense.

I had also missed the question the OP asked.

NiceGerbil · 29/04/2021 02:33

Agree there's a lot of posts that look like shit stirring and aiming to cause division and maybe get nice screen shots.

Problem is, more often than not it seems to work :/

Igneococcus · 29/04/2021 06:28

Seems a bit like a loaded question... with the intention of a gotcha..

I'm in Scotland. Humza introduced a law that could see me jailed for seven years if someone thinks me discussing anything gendercritical even in the privacy of my own home was meant to stir up hatred, even stating a clear biological fact (I'm a biologist) could see me accused. This law, which is basically a blasphemy law, protects religion, I think it's a perfectly legitimate question to ask (to the person who wrote it) what would happen when the protect characteristic religion clashes with the protected characteristic trans.

Sexnotgender · 29/04/2021 08:06

@Igneococcus

Seems a bit like a loaded question... with the intention of a gotcha..

I'm in Scotland. Humza introduced a law that could see me jailed for seven years if someone thinks me discussing anything gendercritical even in the privacy of my own home was meant to stir up hatred, even stating a clear biological fact (I'm a biologist) could see me accused. This law, which is basically a blasphemy law, protects religion, I think it's a perfectly legitimate question to ask (to the person who wrote it) what would happen when the protect characteristic religion clashes with the protected characteristic trans.

This.

Sorry I didn’t give more context, I made the assumption people would know who Humza was. Apologies.

OP posts:
dragoncena · 29/04/2021 08:11

No idea who/what Humza is, but if you've got a penis you'll be sitting with the men in the mosque.

WhoNeedsaManOfTheWorld · 29/04/2021 08:19

I think most (all?) are pretty shite for women
The point afaics is that men get the better deal. I can imagine he would support a TW to be in any, religious or otherwise, female space but if a woman identified as a male would she be allowed into the male space or gain any preferential treatment?
I suspect his answer would be no but he would just not answer. He is a hypocrite

WhoNeedsaManOfTheWorld · 29/04/2021 08:20

Religions
Sorry, missed out a word. Most religions are pretty shite for women imo

WhoNeedsaManOfTheWorld · 29/04/2021 08:21

Omg I can't write to make any sense
Males, regardless of how they identify, fare better in religion and in this Scottish law

Waitwhat23 · 29/04/2021 08:25

@Igneococcus I'm also in Scotland and agree. The Scottish Government have stated that their official policy is TWAW (and been corrected by a judge in the recent FWS ruling as it is not official policy - it hasn't been discussed or assessed). In that case, how can there be any exceptions at all? (religious, peerage or otherwise). Could it be because when a situation benefits men, the rules don't apply?

SolitaryBee · 29/04/2021 08:26

WhoNeeds I don't think you did miss out a word because everything is pretty shite for women. We are at the bottom of the heap every single time. The Scottish Hate Crime Bill perfectly encapsulates this. Everyone and their rubber duck is worth protecting except women.

littlbrowndog · 29/04/2021 08:26

#askhumza

How many sexes are there

He is our justice minister

He refused to answer that question

Imagine not knowing the answer to that question

Lessthanaballpark · 29/04/2021 08:40

As a slight derail, I completely agree with NiceGerbil. The reaction to the BlackMumsnet proposal was awful.

@DeepThinkingGirl GC feminists are fighting against a change that would affect Muslim women negatively by potentially taking away their right to single sex gatherings. That is the context.

Sorry you feel bashed in MN in general. I hate to think of people being excluded.

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