Keira Bell and Tavistock Appeal 29th June

[AdHominemNonSequitur]

Saw on Twitter.

twitter.com/lascapigliata8/status/1385333087547101184
I think costs are escallating.

Afternoon one of the cases is on hold pending the outcome of the Cass review. It relates to the affirmation model, the idea that young people mustn't be questioned about their gender identity thereby sending children down the almost certain route of transition without question. Children and young people must be allowed to question their feelings so that if transition is the route, it is more likely to be the best route for them.

Both cases are really important

Shizuku - that's not quite the winning point you want it to be.

She was devastated by the effects on her body yes, and wants to make sure other girls don't needlessly have to suffer and go through the same terrible experience. Nothing to do with TRANSgirls though. As transgirls are biological males. Obviously males are supposed to experience the effects of testosterone on their bodies as they go through puberty.

Keira is a hero. And I have donated.

Donated. (Not much, but it all helps.)

All these oranisations that claim to support dysphoric young people - and then they put Keira through the mill yet again. They ought to be ashamed of themselves.

@Erkrie

She was devastated by the effects on her body yes, and wants to make sure other girls don't needlessly have to suffer and go through the same terrible experience. Nothing to do with TRANSgirls though. As transgirls are biological males. Obviously males are supposed to experience the effects of testosterone on their bodies as they go through puberty.

Keira is a hero. And I have donated.

You don't think trans girls are traumatised by the effects of testosterone on their bodies? You really need to meet more trans women.

The word bullying comes to mind. All that organisational might against a young woman. An exceptional woman, but one young woman. Horrible bullies the lot of them. Will dig.

Normal biological development

vs

Experimental medicine practised on children, with no reputable evidence on long term risks or outcomes.

The two are not comparable.

Totally devastated that association of lawyers for children have intervened, I'm a member and I think the position they are taking is totally against the interests of children. It's baffling.

@Shizuku

Remind me - is Keira Bell the woman who was devastated by the effects of testosterone on her body, and now wants to make sure that trans girls suffer the way she has?

The treatment which Keira Bell had means that she may be infertile and will be unable to breastfeed if she does have a child.

How would transgirls (who are male) suffer in the same way as she has if they go through a natural puberty? This will (probably) result in them being fertile (not infertile) and they would never be able to breastfeed anyway because they are male.

You don't think trans girls are traumatised by the effects of testosterone on their bodies? You really need to meet more trans women.

The sort of transwomen who have fathered children?

Why would you make Keira's story about MTF trans people?

Totally devastated that association of lawyers for children have intervened, I'm a member and I think the position they are taking is totally against the interests of children. It's baffling.

Wonder if they have been convinced by the Foxbotherer.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

Why would you make Keira's story about MTF trans people?

Why indeed. It's almost as if MTF trans people must, must, must be centred in every conversation, even when that conversation is about protecting girls.

There is a famous trans woman who is demonstrating trauma from the lack of testosterone. The self-admission of an inability to have any libido, never had an orgasm, never will, multiple surgeries on tissue that has never developed from a lack of testosterone and all of the ongoing complications and management required, and ongoing self-admitted mental health problems.

The Bell ruling has protected children who cannot consent to this from heading down the same path.

@wejammin

Totally devastated that association of lawyers for children have intervened, I'm a member and I think the position they are taking is totally against the interests of children. It's baffling.

Sarah Phillimore told them she wasn't going to renew her membership because of this, and it seems they responded and informed her that their position as intervenors is 'neutral'. Bit odd because it's been framed as though they're intervening against Keira.

twitter.com/SVPhillimore/status/1385712077843668994

Don't know what to make of it.

And I would love to hear from trans women. I’d love to hear from all those who are “expanding the bandwidth of what it means to be a woman”. I’d like to hear them explain to male children that it’s ok to go through male puberty because look! You can be a woman with a beard! And a fully functioning penis! And father children! I don’t agree with this idea of course, but at least it would remove the notion that male puberty is somehow wrong.

But funnily enough, those that frequently tell us all these things are unusually silent on this particular issue. We just seem to hear from adult males who have benefited from male puberty who for reasons known only to them, want to tell children that they don’t deserve those benefits.

The average male child, who you might call a “trans girl” if left alone and supported through puberty will grow up to be happy with their body:

www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyt.2021.632784/full

This has long been known and this study supports this. Children should be able to consent to decisions that will lead them to undertake puberty blockers, cross sex hormones and their consequences. Do you think they can understand? If they can meet the criteria set out by the judges, then by all means, let them crack on:

i) the immediate consequences of the treatment in physical and psychological terms;
(ii) the fact that the vast majority of patients taking puberty blocking drugs proceed to taking cross-sex hormones and are, therefore, a pathway to much greater medical interventions;
(iii) the relationship between taking cross-sex hormones and subsequent surgery, with the implications of such surgery;
(iv) the fact that cross-sex hormones may well lead to a loss of fertility;
(v) the impact of cross-sex hormones on sexual function;
(vi) the impact that taking this step on this treatment pathway may have on future and life-long relationships;
(vii) the unknown physical consequences of taking puberty blocking drugs; and
(viii) the fact that the evidence base for this treatment is as yet highly uncertain

Do you understand consent?

I've donated to the Good Law Project if that helps. Seems that the people fighting for a cleaner more onest government would be a good judge of which side is the right side.

You don't think trans girls are traumatised by the effects of testosterone on their bodies? You really need to meet more trans women

Shizuku many self-identified "trans girls" explicitly say they don't suffer dysphoria, so testosterone isn't an issue for them. You seem to have missed the memo. You really need to meet more transwomen.

You don't think trans girls are traumatised by the effects of testosterone on their bodies? You really need to meet more trans women

The transwomen and transmen I know fortunately don't think like you, and recognise the dangers and harm early transition often causes.☺️

You know perfectly well that the average trans girl will be absolutely devastated by the effects of testosterone at puberty

It's not our fault (or Keira's) that young children aren't able to understand how infertility and all the other side effects of this experimental treatment will affect them as adults. Of course they can't understand it, they're children. The thought of sex and babies is gross when you're a kid, it's completely natural that many will be adamant that they don't want kids anyway.

How can a child give informed consent to something when there isn't enough information on the effects of these drugs?

Also, the sudden 4000+% rise in referrals were girls. Girls don't develop any irreversible changes due to puberty, yet they're put on PB's anyway. Why?