New feminist campaign "Stop Surrogacy Now"

[RabbitOfCaerbannog]

A new feminist campaign has been set up against the commodification of babies and women's wombs for rent - Stop Surrogacy Now. Looks like an important cause to get behind. From Stop Surrogacy Now's home page:

Surrogacy is the social practice where a woman is ‘used’ for her body, her fertility and reproductive capacity to grow and birth a baby without the intention of being a mother to that child and giving that baby away, or ‘gifting’ that child to ‘Intended Parents’.
We see Surrogacy is the sale of a child where any profit is made. No amount of pretending its ‘gestational service’ changes the reality. Commissioning parents want a baby not a service, the baby is the ‘end product’.
Surrogacy as a practice developed from the demand of wealthy, infertile people to have exclusive parenthood of a biological child.

1. exploiting women as baby making machines does not advance women’s rights
2. The child’s right to have a relationship with all its parents are disregarded
3. It perpetuates that same old structural injustice where poor/ vulnerable women are used for the benefit of the wealthy – the power imbalance in surrogacy is a key argument ‘Using a surrogate’ means replacing the only mother a child has ever known. “People who seek a surrogate have a very specific desire…it is not only a desire to raise a child, but also a demand that the mother be absent.” ~ Kajsa Ekis Ekman “Being and Being Bought”

This is the website:

stopsurrogacynowuk.org/2021/04/22/welcome-to-stop-surrogacy-now-uk/

Was I not allowed to respond?

@noisasentence no alternate views are permitted on feminism chat I’ve learnt! You’re better off leaving them to it. Not worth the vitriol you will get back.

Mmmmmm. Or you could respond to the points I raised?

What vitriol?

I think the UK surrogacy situation is likely to be ENORMOUSLY different to the US, or the Ukraine, or the Chinese situation.

I recognise there are vast situational, legal, and ethical differences here, but if “my body, my choice” is a fundamental right, then surely feminism must follow through on that statement.

Where does the baby fit into all these choices? Does the baby get a choice? What would the baby choose if he or she or they had a choice?

@ShagMeRiggins

I have a lot of research to do around this subject, but my first thought was WTF happened to “my body, my choice?”

It seems fine with sexual freedom and abortion, but not so much with prostitution and surrogacy.

I recognise there are vast situational, legal, and ethical differences here, but if “my body, my choice” is a fundamental right, then surely feminism must follow through on that statement.

"My body, my choice" is certainly not a 'fundamental right'.

By law, we are not allowed to ingest certain drugs, to have abortions beyond a certain date, to sell our internal organs and many other things besides. Bodily autonomy is not absolute.

Not to mention that surrogacy is not simply about the body of the 'surrogate' but about a child who is created with the express intention of being separated from his or her birth mother. There are very deep ethical problems with surrogacy, which is why it is either completely banned or heavily restricted in most of Western Europe.

Not worth the vitriol you will get back

One person's vitriol is another person's well educated reasonable argument.

Disagreement is not hate.

I think surrogacy always forgets about the baby.

The needs of the "parents" are always the starting point and fully considered followed closely by the woman who is giving birth bur rarely is the baby discussed.
Its akin to puppy farming as far as I am concerned. We can give the puppy a good life so it doesn't matter where it came from....

@noisasentence

I have a child through surrogacy. Everyone is happy and doing well. Child was attached and calm from the beginning. Surrogate enjoyed the process and went on to do it again because she's kind and enjoyed the first time. She was compensated for expenses only and is still a friend. Child knows all about it and accepts it as a normal way to enter the world. Our surrogate definitely didn't want any more children so no broken hearts anywhere. She'd hoot with laughter at the suggestion she was used. This was a life goal for her, along with many other things.

This is the reality for most surrogacy journeys.

And yet, you refer to her as 'our surrogate'. Dehumanising or what?? You are making the point and you can't even see it. Misogyny really is white noise to so many.

@LastRoloIsMine my point is ‘disagreement’ is not tolerated on this board. Unfortunately the previous posters giving their own experiences didn’t realise this thread is just an echo chamber for surrogacy= evil and no other views are tolerated. I was just letting them know this was the case.

I should probably hide this thread but surrogacy is the buying and selling of a human.
That's it.
You can call it expenses or compensation but actually the adults involved are buying and selling a baby. That will never sit well with me.

@LastRoloIsMinemy point is ‘disagreement’ is not tolerated on this board.

Of course it is.
Just dont expect everyone to agree with you. You clearly disagree with me and so far I have managed not to abuse you off the thread.

[quote LastRoloIsMine]**@LastRoloIsMinemy point is ‘disagreement’ is not tolerated on this board.

Of course it is.
Just dont expect everyone to agree with you. You clearly disagree with me and so far I have managed not to abuse you off the thread.[/quote]
You will notice I have learnt better than to give my views as I have previously been abused off these type of threads. So you have no ammunition with which to attack me. I was just letting the other posters know what this board is like!

@LastRoloIsMine

I should probably hide this thread but surrogacy is the buying and selling of a human. That's it. You can call it expenses or compensation but actually the adults involved are buying and selling a baby. That will never sit well with me.

This all day long. Of course feminist women will be against surrogacy..women are human beings. We are not to be bought nor sold. We are not commodities.

The root of feminism is the recognition that women and girls are exploited, oppressed and abused on the basis of biology. Surrogacy is exploitation. If you support surrogacy, you are an enemy of women.

I was just letting the other posters know what this board is like!

To you. What it is like to you, how you see it. You could let other grown adults find out for themselves by reading other threads about surrogacy and other feminist issues (hint: it was posted in feminist chat and not on the surrogacy board).

Anyway.

From that blog in the OP.

"Commissioning parents want a baby not a service, the baby is the ‘end product’."

So 'our surrogate', or rather, the mother of our surrogate born baby, or even the surrogate mother, provided a service.In all cases in the U.K. it cannot be for profit but it can be for payment.

You can of course decline to answer but how much did you pay 'your surrogate', who could also be called your friend (?). What did the expenses come to and what did they include?

Also from the blog

"On page 356 of the Law Commission’s document, ‘other expenses’ listed include mobile phone payments, holidays and gifts."

(She may not have been a friend to start with if you were matched through an agency/broker.)

You will notice I have learnt better than to give my views as I have previously been abused off these type of threads. So you have no ammunition with which to attack me. I was just letting the other posters know what this board is like!

Give your views!
Opinion away.
You have posted half a dozen times in this thread and you are still here so not seeing the vitriol yet. Maybe it will come later?

Ok so what are your views on surrogacy? Do you believe it is always a mutal exchange of services?

The root of feminism is the recognition that women and girls are exploited, oppressed and abused on the basis of biology. Surrogacy is exploitation. If you support surrogacy, you are an enemy of women.*

💯 this

Name change fail - it me

I would love to have a conversation about how we would avoid commercial surrogacy becoming a baby factory?

If you support surrogacy, you are an enemy of women.

And children. You dont care how the fact they were born from a mother who gave them away will affect them.
Yes some cope well but you cannot know that when you purchase the baby. Why risk causing that sort of damage to another person simply because your wants are what matters?

@LastRoloIsMine I made the mistake of giving my views on a previous thread on surrogacy - that’s where I experienced plenty - plenty of vitriol. I’ve learnt my lesson. I notice the same posters are still here too - such as @OhHolyJesus who likes to stalk the surrogacy topic in ‘becoming a parent’ and anyone who dares post there.

I just felt bad for the posters who shared their experience of surrogacy who seems to be misinformed that a discussion would be tolerated here.

As long as the discussion follows talk guidelines then they are tolerated.

I will give my option then you can give yours and if you want to we can talk about why they differ?

@LastRoloIsMine I already said I no longer give my views on this chat board as it was made clear to me that dissent from surrogacy = evil was not to be tolerated.

I just felt bad for the posters who shared their experience of surrogacy who seems to be misinformed that a discussion would be tolerated here.

Just because some people claim to have a subjectively 'positive' experience of surrogacy doesn't mean that surrogacy is ethical. It's human nature that if we benefit from something, we're inclined to overlook the negative side of it. That's why laws about such matters are guided not by anecdotes and stories of cozy 'surrogacy journies', but by examination of the potential consequences for all concerned, not just the commissioning parents, and for society as a whole.

@LastRoloIsMine also hilarious saying you would have a discussion with someone about surrogacy when you literally said if you support surrogacy you are an enemy. Not seeing a whole lot of room for discussion from that statement.