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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Just Fear of the Unknown, says Alan Cummings

117 replies

Igneococcus · 22/04/2021 06:29

In the Times:
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/3bdf5ac0-a2ee-11eb-b457-728758ee7665?shareToken=fd3963bda621590b5f11b7c85ddea4ce

OP posts:
Igneococcus · 22/04/2021 06:31

And here is his actual comment:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/4032a0b2-a2eb-11eb-949b-ab1b919d4f89?shareToken=4641d2fcd3a58749bb73c86a613e6889

OP posts:
CatNamedEaster · 22/04/2021 06:35

But rights aren’t like cake; someone else getting some doesn’t mean you have any less.

Except when it does.

Igneococcus · 22/04/2021 06:39

That's the first thing that jumped out at me too, and not a the tiniest hint of a thought about hormones/surgery for children.

OP posts:
Floisme · 22/04/2021 06:39

Thanks, I've not read either yet but I assume he's telling men they need to get over their silly hang ups and learn to accept transwomen in their spaces, no?

Igneococcus · 22/04/2021 06:40

Actually that's wrong, there is "and possibly altering their bodies in ways they might live to regret."

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Igneococcus · 22/04/2021 06:41

Of course he is Flo I'm sure I'll be getting to that bit any moment now.

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R0wantrees · 22/04/2021 06:42

Cummings, "And to those who carp that non-binary people are making it too confusing for us with all their pronoun nonsense, might I posit: how much does it cost to make the effort to refer to someone the way they want to be referred to?"

I do so hope someone passes him a copy of Barracker's article:

'Pronouns are Rohypnol'
(extract)
"I’ve heard many people tell me they don’t mind doing this, as a courtesy, although it takes some effort to keep up the mental gymnastics of perceiving one sex, but consistently using pronouns for the other. That’s a personal choice, and I respect the reasons why some people make it.

I’ve also heard many people declaring that anyone who won’t comply (usually directed at a woman) is obnoxious, mean, hostile, and unpleasant. ‘Misgendering’ is hate speech. They say.

But I refuse to use female pronouns for anyone male. Because pronouns are like Rohypnol.

One of the biggest obstacles to halting the stampede over women’s rights is pronoun and preferred name ‘courtesy’. People severely underestimate the psychological impact to themselves, and to others, of compliance." (continues)

fairplayforwomen.com/pronouns/

CatNamedEaster · 22/04/2021 06:43

How does allowing a male-bodied person into a space where a woman or girl might be vulnerable, undressed, where there is only one exit NOT diminish her rights?
How does allowing a male-bodied person to compete against a female and (more than likely unless she is superhuman) take her place on the podium or at a sports scholarship NOT diminish her rights?
How does allowing a male-bodied person to provide intimate care to an elderly female dementia patient without her family's consent NOT diminish her rights?

Pillock.

ThereWasThisBoy · 22/04/2021 06:44

Oh look, another man telling women how to act. And that we are uneducated and phobic. Marion Calder‘s response was perfect.

CatNamedEaster · 22/04/2021 06:58

And actually it's the opposite of what his title says: it's fear of the known, of what has already happened (even though it never has or will happen Wink) that keeps pesky wimmin from backing down and being polite about it.

AnyOldPrion · 22/04/2021 06:59

the most gratifying change he had witnessed was the “confirmation that when people are exposed to and begin to understand something they were previously ignorant of and felt threatened by, they stop being afraid and aggressive”.

Perhaps he would benefit from rexamining how that change was achieved and compare it to the current situation.

It is often pushed aside that a similarly timed attempt to normalise paedophilia met with less success because it was recognised that there was a rights clash. He’s very much wrong about rights.

wonderstuff · 22/04/2021 07:05

I'm so sick of men explaining why women are wrong. It's equivalent to me as a white woman explaining why racism isn't a problem.

transsloth · 22/04/2021 07:06

Well, I do not fear trans people, I just don't believe they have changed sex. We have sex-specific services and facilities and someone saying they are the opposite sex does not override this.

Secondly, many adults women who are concerned about girls transitioning physically are saying "that could have been me". We empathise with those girls and want to see them grow up safely.

Thirdly, rights might not be like pie, but equality does change who gets what share. There are a fixed number of MPs, there is only one prime minister, one winner of the women's 100m at the Olympics, etc. Each MP who is a woman does actually reduce the number of men in parliament, and each male winner of a women's race takes success from women.

Oh Alan, it's almost as if I have thought about all this quite a lot.

Biscuitsanddoombar · 22/04/2021 07:08

God the rights are not a pie type “gotcga” is so 6th form debating society

Yes they are Alan yes they are

My right to a single sex space is ended the moment men are allowed into it no matter how they present

He of course isn’t being asked to give up any rights at all.

WarOnWomen · 22/04/2021 07:08

Yes, another man giving the rights of women away. How original.

R0wantrees · 22/04/2021 07:09

Cummings, "We all want equality, don’t we? We should all have equal respect, equal pay, equal rights. That’s what feminism is all about, and what every civil rights struggle has been about. But rights aren’t like cake; someone else getting some doesn’t mean you have any less."

Except of course in situations where one group's demands do indeed impact on another's.
Such as female prisoners' right not to be housed with violent male offenders and sexually assaulted by them within the women's prison estate:

"But more than two hours away, at the Central California Women’s Facility in Chowchilla, there’s fear. Inmates say guards have warned them that “men are coming” and to expect sexual violence."

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4212959-Inmates-say-guards-have-warned-them-that-men-are-coming-and-to-expect-sexual-violence

ThereWasThisBoy · 22/04/2021 07:14

I'm so sick of men explaining why women are wrong. It's equivalent to me as a white woman explaining why racism isn't a problem.

Yep.

But he’s bisexual so apparently we should listen to him....you know cos ‘T’ has been conveniently added to LGB. So it’s the same thing right? Like he says when he compared ‘the prejudices faced by trans people today to the struggles of gay men to gain equality,’ I believe that he bridges this and that’s because he is the one who has no clue. Women don’t need educating on this Alan, but you really do.

ThereWasThisBoy · 22/04/2021 07:15

*believes not bridges

Biscuitsanddoombar · 22/04/2021 07:18

I’m sure Alan will be able to name all the human rights trans people don’t have

ZuttZeVootEeeVro · 22/04/2021 07:25

We all want equality, don’t we? We should all have equal respect, equal pay, equal rights. That’s what feminism is all about...

I don't actually care what an actor thinks, but he's doing the old trick of redefining feminism and telling women they are doing it wrong.

SapphosRock · 22/04/2021 07:30

God it's always the men isn't it? Merrily giving away women's sex based rights without a care in the world.

Excellent response by Marion Calder Star

R0wantrees · 22/04/2021 07:37

Sapphos, I've seen plenty of women giving women's rights away similarly without apparent care in the world.

Helleofabore · 22/04/2021 07:46

Great comment by Marion Calder. She really said it all.

And, of course, the complete minimization of the risk, short and long term, of transition on the female body in particular with that almost flippant remark about regret.

Signalbox · 22/04/2021 07:47

But rights aren’t like cake; someone else getting some doesn’t mean you have any less

I can never understand why people use cake to demonstrate this point. Wasn't the Asher's Cake Company case all about balancing the conflicting rights of two groups both with protected characteristics?

www.thejournal.ie/readme/aoife-mcmahon-belfast-cake-case-supreme-court-4287585-Oct2018/

FlyPassed · 22/04/2021 07:54

Ah, another man who is in no way impacted by the topic at hand rehashes the classic from the #BeKind handbook. How tedious.

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