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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Just Fear of the Unknown, says Alan Cummings

117 replies

Igneococcus · 22/04/2021 06:29

In the Times:
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/3bdf5ac0-a2ee-11eb-b457-728758ee7665?shareToken=fd3963bda621590b5f11b7c85ddea4ce

OP posts:
GrumpyMiddleAgedWoman · 22/04/2021 19:30
  • women not some. So enraged I can't spell!
ScrollingLeaves · 22/04/2021 19:41

Apropos his comment that “rights aren’t like cake” there are interesting points in the article here which ROwantrees posted on another thread (thank you for this) which show how adopting Stonewall’s policies can indeed mean a lack of cake for many other rights:
legalfeminist.org.uk/2021/02/01/submission-and-compliance/

“Edinburgh University publishes all its equality policies, here. What’s striking about that list is that gender reassignment is the only protected characteristic that has its own dedicated policy. There is no “Sex Equality Policy,” no “Disability Equality Policy,” no “Race Equality Policy,” no “Religion or Belief Equality Policy.” There isn’t even a general “LGBT Equality Policy.” But there is a special “Trans Equality Policy.”

Now, it is often said by the pious that “rights aren’t pie”: that is to say, there’s no fixed quantity of “rights” so that if one group gets more, the others must get less. That’s a half-truth. Rights may not be pie, but time, attention, energy and money most definitely are pie. If University managers are pouring hours of their time into drafting and implementing Trans Equality Policies that meet with Stonewall’s approval, that’s time they won’t have spent wondering why their female staff earn less on average, or occupy more junior lectureships but fewer Chairs than their male colleagues; or checking that colleagues of a hearing-impaired member of staff know how to ensure that she is fully able to participate in meetings; or trying to work out how to eradicate the effects of unconscious racial bias in vivas or disciplinary proceedings.”

“Now imagine that this organisation has – like Edinburgh University – adopted a specific Trans Equality Policy (with all the training, mentoring, monitoring, social media presence, rainbow merchandise and so on that that entails). But – also like Edinburgh University – it has no similar policy or programme of activities focusing on sex, race, disability, age, religion and belief, maternity or marital status.

In other words, it has made a clear public statement about its priorities. Its 3-8 trans staff appear to be absorbing a grossly disproportionate amount of its time and attention compared to any of the other minority groups it employs – and especially as compared to its majority of 510 staff who are biological women. And many of the respects in which it has decided, at Stonewall’s instigation, to gold-plate trans rights represent blatant incursions into women’s rights in particular. In a suitable case, that statement about an organisation’s priorities could legitimately form part of the material giving rise to an inference of discrimination on grounds of sex.”

Workplace health and safety obligations

stumbledin · 22/04/2021 19:51

Am getting really fed up with people, particularly men, saying feminism is about equal rights for all.

Yet again it is about erasing women, and women's fight for equality.

So many people said that TRA was just the trojan horse that would be used to erase women, because it allows men to deny they oppress women.

I dont understand why any papers publish what actors think. Who cares. Reviewing their work is one thing. Why allow them a platform.

stumbledin · 22/04/2021 19:57

Okay - have cheered up a bit having read comments on both articles (thanks for the shares).

Lets hope AC gets his entitled male brain to actually read the responses and see how ignorant he appears.

Dozer · 22/04/2021 19:59

Mansplainer of the day, eh.

TalkingtoLangClegintheDark · 23/04/2021 00:08

@nauticant

I submitted a comment where I quoted "But rights aren’t like cake; someone else getting some doesn’t mean you have any less." and added my text:

In many situations this isn't true, sometimes rights conflict. But that doesn't bother Alan Cumming because the consequences won't land on him.

It's very easy to give away other people's rights, and very tempting when you'll be applauded for it.

It was rejected instantly by the algorithm as being abusive, it didn't even become a pending comment.

Same thing happened to a friend.

She discovered that the offending word that was triggering the “abuse”-detecting algorithm was in fact the vacuous actor’s surname: “Cumming” Grin

Upon rewriting without the offending moniker, the comment went to pending and was ultimately accepted.

I tested the theory and the same thing happened.

You couldn’t make it up!

Ereshkigalangcleg · 23/04/2021 00:10
Grin
TalkingtoLangClegintheDark · 23/04/2021 00:11

I have to say, in the light of recent worries about the Times becoming very heavy handed in its censorship of GC comments, there are some absolutely cracking comments being approved under those articles.

Women are speaking! How fabulous it is.

Scepticaltank · 23/04/2021 00:36

PMSL that Cumming is defeated by the spam filter. How much work has the poor thesp lost I wonder?

MissBarbary · 23/04/2021 00:57

@ThereWasThisBoy

Oh look, another man telling women how to act. And that we are uneducated and phobic. Marion Calder‘s response was perfect.
Oh look another person who doesn't live in Scotland spouting claptrap about "independence" to those of us who do.
Whatsnewpussyhat · 23/04/2021 01:44

Rights are like cake. All about men having their cake and eating it.

We're not allowed any fucking cake.

NiceGerbil · 23/04/2021 02:18

Interesting.

The SNP are in the spotlight a lot recently on this topic and with the alba thing etc.

I suspect he has been wheeled out on their behalf.

The piece is brief, bland, and despite what the blurb says, not heartfelt.

I don't get the feeling he is actually interested. I think this is entirely political.

NiceGerbil · 23/04/2021 02:26

'And to those who carp that non-binary people are making it too confusing for us with all their pronoun nonsense, might I posit: how much does it cost to make the effort to refer to someone the way they want to be referred to? '

A lot in terms of time and memory if you're leading a meeting online with 20 people you've never met before! Look them all up on the intranet/ ask at the beginning and make notes, etc.

It's always presented at individual level, someone you know, have met. And what happens in a cross country context? Do you have to get in touch with people ahead of time and explain about pronouns and etc and brief everyone on preferences?

Yes it does cost something because it's a big change in language.

I'd be fine with everyone being they/them (as has been done in business for years eg the sales person calls the admin person and asks them to open a file).

I get the feeling that everyone being they/ them would also not be acceptable though...

In short I don't think he cares, he's doing this for political reasons.

Interesting feminists are always mentioned rather than the group who really don't like/accept/ and can be violent to non conforming men IE other men.

sourdoughismyreligion · 23/04/2021 11:06

We're either evil fascist bigots who know the truth but reject it because we're evil and we like making 'poor vulnerable trans people' miserable. Or we're poor bewildered frightened little women who have got our little feminine heads in a tizz because we're so frightened and we don't understand things. These blokes don't even consider the possibility we're rational thinking human beings who have considered the arguments put forward by proponents of gender identity and have rejected them because they are utterly incoherent.

littlbrowndog · 23/04/2021 11:25

@sourdoughismyreligion

We're either evil fascist bigots who know the truth but reject it because we're evil and we like making 'poor vulnerable trans people' miserable. Or we're poor bewildered frightened little women who have got our little feminine heads in a tizz because we're so frightened and we don't understand things. These blokes don't even consider the possibility we're rational thinking human beings who have considered the arguments put forward by proponents of gender identity and have rejected them because they are utterly incoherent.
All of this 👏🏌️‍♀️🏌️‍♀️🏌️‍♀️
MichelleofzeResistance · 23/04/2021 17:43

I suspect he has been wheeled out on their behalf.

Well his PR people have failed him then, since he's been left swinging in the wind while looking like a vaccuous, ill informed twit.

Wandawomble · 23/04/2021 19:12

I have a fear of penises precisely because I know what they are.

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