I just came out as GC at work, to the big boss and I feel a bit sick

[JustcameoutGC]

I have NCed for this. I have just outed myself as GC in work to the big boss (and some others cced in).

I was asked to sign off on something that I just couldn't and I said so, and explained why.

I literally feel sick. Like I have put a big fat GC target on my back. My org is totally woke. I wonder how many times my response has been forwarded already.

@WallaceinAnderland

If I worked with you, I’d be reporting such behaviour for further education and disciplinary action. I reported similar behaviour relatively recently and it was handled very well.

Hmm, this sounds awfully like conversion therapy.

That's a bad thing right?

Well spotted, Wallace, presumably conversion therapy that doesn't identify as conversion therapy is okay. Much like re-education that doesn't identify as forcible indoctrination is okay, I'm guessing the Uighur Muslims in China will feel a whole lot better once that is explained to them.

We are not defined by our body parts. Is a women any less of a woman after a double mastectomy? Or after a hysterectomy? No, of course not

That's ridiculous. A woman as you describe is still a woman. She had breasts and a uterus and lost them to disease - and was socialised having them. A man never had them in the first place. A man has testes and a penis. And no breasts. And grew up with testes and a penis. No woman has never experienced having a penis and testes.Just a vagina and a womb and breasts. That's what makes her a woman. A man cannot have, and never will have genuine body parts that are unique to women. I'm new to this, but I never thought I'd ever have to have such a fucking delusional conversation online.

I had a schizophrenic brother with whom I had endless conversations that there were not snipers on the roof over the road just waiting to take him out, and the water tank in the loft did not house the body of a man who was stalking him. This feels a bit like that. It's just ludicrous.

My brother died some years ago because he needed a life saving operation but refused to have it because he thought they were trying to kill him. I tried my best, I begged and I pleaded, but he was immovable, lost in his own delusions.

Oh will. Let's hope the madness subsides. I think it will.

My brother died some years ago because he needed a life saving operation but refused to have it because he thought they were trying to kill him. I tried my best, I begged and I pleaded, but he was immovable, lost in his own delusions.

That's so sad I'm sorry

I actually didn't use the wording "coming out" (that came from sweetpetricor) I said I outed myself. I was faced with a choice, signing off on us joining the latest stonewall led initiative, or highlighting the risks inherent in doing so. I chose to do the latter, which to anyone who follows this arena would instantly signal that I am gender critical.

I didn't go into his office wearing a radicalised by mumsnet badge and asking for a quick chat.

I think the madness is subsiding, but I’m not surprised that there are still some, otherwise rational, people who will still fight viciously on the other side. If someone has be duped to such an extent that this ‘be kind’ crowd has,it is very hard to get them to see things rationally.

I would also urge cation with responding to individuals directly and with personal comments. Bunbury would say ‘scroll on by’.

@Newbee9

Similar here. My experience OP in the last few weeks: Local government equality and diversity statement at work, protected characteristic “gender”. I took a deep breath and emailed HR to advise about an error that needed to be amended. I pasted in the list of protected characteristics from the EQ act. I had an acknowledgment that it would be passed on. No further communication. Checked intranet today and it has been changed. The policy date has remained the same but it now clearly reads “sex” in the list and not gender. No backlash, just very quietly it’s been corrected. Keep chipping away. This is too important to ignore. It sounds as if you handled it respectfully and with your company’s best interests in place. Safeguarding first, feelings second.

Thank you!

@DarkishBlue

We are not defined by our body parts. Is a women any less of a woman after a double mastectomy? Or after a hysterectomy? No, of course not

That's ridiculous. A woman as you describe is still a woman. She had breasts and a uterus and lost them to disease - and was socialised having them. A man never had them in the first place. A man has testes and a penis. And no breasts. And grew up with testes and a penis. No woman has never experienced having a penis and testes.Just a vagina and a womb and breasts. That's what makes her a woman. A man cannot have, and never will have genuine body parts that are unique to women. I'm new to this, but I never thought I'd ever have to have such a fucking delusional conversation online.

I had a schizophrenic brother with whom I had endless conversations that there were not snipers on the roof over the road just waiting to take him out, and the water tank in the loft did not house the body of a man who was stalking him. This feels a bit like that. It's just ludicrous.

My brother died some years ago because he needed a life saving operation but refused to have it because he thought they were trying to kill him. I tried my best, I begged and I pleaded, but he was immovable, lost in his own delusions.

Oh will. Let's hope the madness subsides. I think it will.

I'm sorry Darkish, that's tough.

@SweetPetrichor

Yeah, the vulnerable are paying the price and it’s not you lot, or me. It’s not women. I will proudly stand for gender neutral language, I will happily roll my eyes any woman I see wearing a daft slogan about what they think makes a woman. I am proud to stand against negativity towards transgender or non-binary colleagues, be that direct or through unprofessional word choices or opinions. They have no place in the workplace. I’m glad it is taken seriously and I’m glad the person was disciplined. I’d hope that was always the case. I think people are more than capable of working out whether they are a person with a cervix, and that choice of language protects men who still have a cervix. We are not defined by our body parts. Is a women any less of a woman after a double mastectomy? Or after a hysterectomy? No, of course not.

Is a women any less of a woman after a double mastectomy? Or after a hysterectomy? No, of course not.

So close - just one more step, @SweetPetrichor ...

Thank you for standing up OP. You're very brave. I hope things remain ok for you.

Well done OP! We're behind you.

And very much enjoying watching PP having their arse handed to them by the excellent, well-informed women on these boards. The law still counts, fools. You can't just declare you'd like it to be different and expect people to agree with you.

You might be surprised at how few people (including women) know exactly what/where a cervix is

My 36 year old sen daughter lives in supported living with 4 other women her age.
She has limited speech and likewise her housemates. They would definitely not know. They "do" know which sex they are. So they could follow a sign saying "WOMEN" not because they can read, but because they recognise the pattern of the letters. "Cervix havers" they would not recognise. 36 years they've had to learn the pattern of the letters.
Now some blokes want to change the rules. So what's new.

@JustcameoutGC

Fabulous you did that!

I'm new to this, but I never thought I'd ever have to have such a fucking delusional conversation online.

Welcome to the Upside Down, DarkishBlue. It’s grim, isn’t it. But the women working to challenge this are awesome.

I’m so sorry about your brother

[quote transbadger]@HavelockVetinari
@JustcameoutGC

Badass Badger award for you both 🏆🏆

🦡🌈🤍[/quote]
Thank you ❤️

@DarkishBlue

You might be surprised at how few people (including women) know exactly what/where a cervix is

My 36 year old sen daughter lives in supported living with 4 other women her age.
She has limited speech and likewise her housemates. They would definitely not know. They "do" know which sex they are. So they could follow a sign saying "WOMEN" not because they can read, but because they recognise the pattern of the letters. "Cervix havers" they would not recognise. 36 years they've had to learn the pattern of the letters.
Now some blokes want to change the rules. So what's new.

There are people on this thread who would presumably claim that your daughter and her housemates are not as vulnerable as biologically male trans people because they’ve got “cis privilege”.

Who would prioritise the feelings of biologically male trans people over the rights, health and well-being of your daughter.

I cannot fully express the extent of my anger at those people.

As you say, so what’s new.

OP I hope you’re feeling doubly proud of yourself here - both for standing up for what’s right at work, in the face of a culture that makes it very difficult and risky for you to do so, and for starting this thread which has brought sunlight to the issue for so many MNers.

Fantastic work! 💪💪💪💪💪

Thank you OP.

I'm pretty sure I've lost work through my quiet but consistent GC stance (self employed). As well as because I've spoken out against antisemitism.

Some things are more important.

Thank you

@SweetPetrichor

You don’t ‘come out’ as GC. If I worked with you, I’d be reporting such behaviour for further education and disciplinary action. I reported similar behaviour relatively recently and it was handled very well. I don’t think you have anything to be proud of here and I hope any decent work place will remind you of company policy and/or professional behaviour.

Well this is fucking sinister.

I am reminded of this, from a couple of years ago. In which a woman encounters Equality and Diversity Facilitators

m.youtube.com/watch?v=RVHLh218FJo

@Igneococcus

Gebärmutterhals is more obviously female than cervix containing the words "birth" and "mother".

True, but as someone who only knows the bare basics of German, I didn't associate it with cervix or women, but I know immediately that frauen pertains to me. Now imagine someone who doesn't speak good English trying to navigate language like "cervix-havers" and "menstruators" and "uterus-havers". Not to mention those with learning difficulties or disabilities. It's potentially putting a few minorities in danger (when it comes to healthcare communication) for the sake of not offending another, much smaller, minority.

The blurring of sexual characteristics and gender identity is the heart of the issue here.

If someone wants to identify as a different gender, or as non-binary, crack on. I'll respect your pronouns and address you as you ask. No problems.

But a man does not have a cervix. A woman does not have a prostate or testicles. I'm not colluding with something which is biologically untrue. A trans woman may have a female gender identity, but she does not have female biological parts. Or female gametes. She is not a woman.

Conflating gender identity with biological sex-based characteristics is causing massive issues. If we could respect people's request to identify as whatever gender they prefer while protecting sex-based rights and using anatomically correct, sex-based language there might actually be a way forward.

If we're going to strip away all the social niceties, let's be honest - agreeing to respect someone's gender identity is a kindness. A transman is not a man. A trans woman is not a woman. No matter how many times you insist you are, you can't change biological fact and it's ridiculous that people are cancelled for stating the truth. We should all be kind, and we should all respect how someone else sees themselves - but when it comes to protecting sex-based language and biology, it's utterly wrong and damaging to mix up the two things.

Is a women any less of a woman after a double mastectomy? Or after a hysterectomy? No, of course not.

...

So close - just one more step

You know, it's strange, because I was once called a 'transphobic cunt' during an online discussion for saying exactly that...that removing breasts doesn't make someone not a woman...

JustCameOutGC

I actually didn't use the wording "coming out" (that came from sweetpetricor) I said I outed myself

Apart from in your username. And the thread title.

Outing yourself seems a better usage.

Not all women have cervixes, but all cervix-havers are women.

Another voice on here saying well done OP. Scary that this is necessary and brave of you to put your head above the parapet.