ACLU sues woman for asking FOIA request re numbers of trans prisoners

[KeepPrisonsSingleSex]

At the weekend, I received an email from a woman in the USA who had submitted a FOIA request to Washington Department of Corrections asking for numbers of transgender prisoners, numbers of transfer requests from male estate to female estate, numbers of actual transfers. She is legally entitled to ask for and to receive this information if it is judged to be in the public interest. If it is not judged to be in the public interest, and hence outside the scope of a FOIA, her request can be declined following a standard process.

What happened?

Well, she didn't get an answer. But more than that the American Civil Liberties Union took legal action against Washington Corrections Department AND AGAINST HER PERSONALLY to prevent this information from being released.

As you can imagine, I was shocked. Not as shocked as she was. But still....

Thankfully, WoLF have taken this on and will be fighting this on behalf of the woman.

It is chilling that ACLU have done this. What does it say for Freedom of Information?

thepostmillennial.com/aclu-blocks-womans-request-for-data-on-numbers-of-transgender-inmates-in-womens-prisons
www.womensliberationfront.org/aclu-lawsuit-public-records

Thought I'd email WoLF to clarify things. They have responded:

"Hi Kate,

Yes, legal action has been brought against our client (who we're not naming publicly). She was named as a defendant in the lawsuit, and therefore is one of a few people/entities being sued.

The clarification was issued because we were receiving a lot of questions around what it meant to be "sued" after we used that language on an early version of our materials - people seemed to believe that this inherently implied that there would be some direct financial cost to our client if she lost the case. We just hoped clarifying our language would help the public understand that what is at stake is not money, but rather the ability of our client to exercise her right to access public records as promised under the Public Records Act."

That tallies with the bundle of documents emailed to me. There is one where the woman is named as an interested party and a second one, Summons in a Civil Action, which names her as the defendant against whom a lawsuit has been filed.

It will be interesting to see the ACLU's justification for all this.

The thing I imagine they would have to go for, is argue that the request ends up violating the privacy of individuals somehow.

(If privacy would matter much in American law?)

Or there is some other line of argument that could be tried?

Although as for the number of prisoners that identify as trans, how would a prison even know that accurately? Are they going to be doing polling on that kind of question?

Can freedom of information requests make the prison do the polling? Or only release stuff they already have?

It would be somewhat bizarre if you could force prisons to do polling of all their prisoners on any issues that interest you.

However, when it comes to how many males have been transferred to female prisons, you would hope they have good records for it.

@Zinco

Although as for the number of prisoners that identify as trans, how would a prison even know that accurately? Are they going to be doing polling on that kind of question?

Can freedom of information requests make the prison do the polling? Or only release stuff they already have?

It would be somewhat bizarre if you could force prisons to do polling of all their prisoners on any issues that interest you.

However, when it comes to how many males have been transferred to female prisons, you would hope they have good records for it.

Requests are generally limited to information an agency has in its possession.

@Zinco

It will be interesting to see the ACLU's justification for all this.

The thing I imagine they would have to go for, is argue that the request ends up violating the privacy of individuals somehow.

(If privacy would matter much in American law?)

Or there is some other line of argument that could be tried?

I suspect this will be the crux of the ACLU argument.

@BrandineDelRoy

I'm by no means defending the ACLU for its position, but I don't believe this is a suit against the person making the request personally. It's a request for an injunction to stop the info being released. If Washington law is similar to my state's law, a party can challenge the release of info if they have an interest. It looks like the ACLU is representing some trans prisoners' interests in this case. The injunction is meant to stop the clock running on the deadline for release so that the ACLU and any other interested parties can get their arguments before a judge. In my state, the injunction would not name the person making the request, but Washington law may allow or even require this to alert the person that their request is being challenged. Also, requests themselves are subject to the FOIA- they aren't confidential.

My thinking is that getting this issue before a judge, especially with WOLF involved, might shed some needed sunshine on the issue. As long as the info isn't providing identifying info about any particular prisoner, I can't see why a judge wouldn't order it released.

You are correct that the ACLU is in fact suing the washington state DOC, and not the woman who filed the FOIA request. They've sued for injuctive relief to stop the DOC releasing records, because they say such records would not be a simple head count but rather include detailed and identifying information on trans and NB inmates putting them at serious risk of physical harm in prison by other inmates and/or staff, and/or by others in the community on the outside once they leave or for those who are no longer in prison.

The ACLU website has a detailed page about the suit here. Please fine on that page a link to the original complaint.

It is true that the woman who filed the FOIA request was named in ths suit as an interested party, which means that she has a right to be updated on the case but not that she is a defendant.

The ACLU’s argument makes no sense shurrly? The FOI requestor asked for a count, and the ACLU have said that the Department of Collections might instead supply loads of identifying info. So something completely different. But that completely different thing would be bad. So the count is bad?

@OneEpisode

The ACLU’s argument makes no sense shurrly? The FOI requestor asked for a count, and the ACLU have said that the Department of Collections might instead supply loads of identifying info. So something completely different. But that completely different thing would be bad. So the count is bad?

I think their argument is bullshit. And don't call me Shirley. I jest.

*You are correct that the ACLU is in fact suing the washington state DOC, and not the woman who filed the FOIA request. They've sued for injuctive relief to stop the DOC releasing records, because they say such records would not be a simple head count but rather include detailed and identifying information on trans and NB inmates putting them at serious risk of physical harm in prison by other inmates and/or staff, and/or by others in the community on the outside once they leave or for those who are no longer in prison.

The ACLU website has a detailed page about the suit here. Please fine on that page a link to the original complaint.

It is true that the woman who filed the FOIA request was named in ths suit as an interested party, which means that she has a right to be updated on the case but not that she is a defendant.*

ACLU have taken out legal action against WA Department of Corrections (where the woman and other parties who also made FOIA requests are named as interested parties).

ACLU has ALSO taken out legal action separately against the woman. And against the News Tribune and KIRO Radio: they both asked different FOIAs in respect of trans prisoners held in WA.

WoLF is acting for the woman. Other legal teams have been appointed to act for the 2 media outlets.

ACLU has taken out legal action both to prevent the information being released AND to prevent more questions being asked.

Bold fail

ACLU has taken out legal action both to prevent the information being released AND to prevent more questions being asked.

Kinell. And I also don't get the argument about it being identifying. Saying there are 20 transgender prisoners in such and such a prison doesn't identify fuck all.

Reading between the lines of the ACLU statement, it looks like requests have been made to establish how many 'intact' males will be placed in women's prisons, and how many males have been convicted of sexual crimes.

I think the rationale is that knowing these numbers may put all of transferred prisoners at risk.

I do think there should be a high level of protection given to personal medical information.

But the number of people transferred from male prisons to female prisons is outside of being a strictly medical matter I would guess/think. i.e. data should be collected, and it's prison records and not medical records, even if it touches on a medical issue.

Perhaps it gets more difficult if a male goes directly to a female prison... I think it should be recorded, but then I don't think it should be happening at all in the first place.

Also there is a clear public interest in knowing the extent of how many males are being moved into female prisons, and how much violence/sexual violence results from that.

@Datun

ACLU has taken out legal action both to prevent the information being released AND to prevent more questions being asked.

Kinell. And I also don't get the argument about it being identifying. Saying there are 20 transgender prisoners in such and such a prison doesn't identify fuck all.

If moving intact men into women’s prisons was so innocent and harmless, they wouldn’t be so determined to hush it up.

I hope you’re right Brandine, and that this will end up backfiring spectacularly - the Streisand effect on a massive scale.

I don't get it though, surely their own rush to hide it means a guilty conscience. As others have said, how have so many organisations taken this weird step into this realm of lunacy? How are staff happy about it all?

Worth reading.

.James Kirchick on The Disintegration of the ACLU
www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/the-disintegration-of-the-aclu-james-kirchick

Mick Hartley - The Decline of the ACLU
mickhartley.typepad.com/blog/2021/03/the-decline-of-the-aclu.html

The ACLU was formed to protect minority groups against injustices performed by the US Government in an era of conservative stronghold. Now that the governments and many organisations promote a woke, progressive agenda, the ACLU’s role has gone from protector of the US Constitution and its embedded rights, to just another organisation promoting a social agenda. The above articles argue it is no longer fit for purpose. Anyone familiar with it’s Twitter of late, may well be inclined to agree.

Does anyone have a update on the progress of this please ?

If you go to the original link www.womensliberationfront.org/aclu-lawsuit-public-records and scroll down they have some updates.

Thanks stumbled
Interesting that there's apparently one natal female in the men's estate in WA!? (As well as 7 natal males in the women's). Wonder if that's genuine or some misunderstanding of the data?

www.womensliberationfront.org/news/washington-aclu-male-rapists-confirmed

I was thinking about this the other day.

Number of inmates that have been transferred from a men’s facility to a women’s facility since January 01, 2021: 3
Total number of male persons who identify as female, non-binary, or any other gender identity that are currently housed in a women’s facility: 7

😡

Those numbers include at least one rapist. And a serial killer.