NHS staff invitation to menopause workshop to people who menstruate!

[sunshineandhappy]

I received a generic email from the well being team at the nhs trust I am employed by inviting me to a managing menopause workshop which was open to 'people who menstruate or people who will go through the menopause'.
This was my reply I was disappointed to see the following phrase ‘those who menstruate or those who will go through the menopause ‘ in the below email. The correct phrase for the target audience should surely include the word women, even if the other phrasing needs to be used as well, as this clumsy phrasing, whilst appearing to be inclusive to a minority, is actually exclusive to the way the vast majority of the target audience for this seminar may feel. I do not want to be reduced to being a person who menstruates or a person who will go through the menopause, I am a woman, an adult human female. I hope my opinion will be considered in the spirit in which it is meant, as all groups matter, and all relevant individuals should be considered when generic emails are being sent to a large number of staff.'
We will wait to see whether I receive any response

Divisions and differences are not words that are interchangeable.

Feminism can end up racist if we don't, for example because we can't assume that the white female experience is the universal female experience etc.

None of the regular/GC posters on here assume that the white (middle class) female experience is universal, in fact the opposite and they go to great lengths to evidence that it isn't. The other side of this divide, however, make it very clear that they do assume it is the universal female experience and will not listen when it is pointed out to them that it is not, they either completely ignore it or dismiss it out of hand. There are examples of that in several threads on this board from those posters, including on this thread, those same posters have the audacity to call themselves feminists and gold star ones at that.

'There used to be words like barren, spinster and crone but they were offensive. Is that because the ideas themselves are offensive?'

You believe that women were the ones who invented these terms and used them against other women?

Barren was a medical term
Spinster was a word in common usage
Crone... Not sure. I think Shakespeare used it.

Spinster comes from an unmarried woman when spinning wool was a common was to make money at home.

The other was for women to discuss their experiences and questions about menopause, which specified "for women including trans women"

Why on earth would a transwoman need to be included in a workshop on menopause? Bonkers

What is a gold star feminist?

On racism, seeing as we're being diverted. Has there been much work done to find out how terms like 'people who menstruate' land with women from different religious or ethnic backgrounds? And those with limited English?

I think that 'menstruation' for example is not the most common term (periods is more common I'd think) and is quite a difficult word, and not very friendly iyswim. It's a technical term.

When I go to the doc they ask me if I know the date of my last period. Not when I last menstruated.

The fact is that we have plenty of commonly understood words for lots of things that have worked well fine for ages. Why change them?

This is for women, anyone who has periods is welcome. For example.
Why people who menstruate'?

@Ereshkigalangcleg

a message about violence against women after the Sarah Everard vigil and included the line "to our male colleagues, we know it's not you"

indeed. Why would they couch it in those terms? As you point out, statistically it's unlikely to be true.

The male colleagues (yes more than one) who threatened me with violence for doing my job, yeah it was definitely them

That inclusion of ‘to our male colleagues, we know it’s not you’ sends a message to women of ‘we will believe men rather than you’

Fuck sake. This is infuriating. Why can't they just write "For women and trans men going through the menopause"???
Am I missing something?

@whatisheupto

Fuck sake. This is infuriating. Why can't they just write "For women and trans men going through the menopause"??? Am I missing something?

It’s transwomen who are upset by this language as using the word woman in its biological sense upsets them as they can’t be part of that. This is why no compromise is acceptable unless it’s removes the word woman.

Why are you so offended at them being inclusive? Trans men are men.

@Melroses

Do you know who is providing the workshop? Is it NHS in house, or an outsided agency?

When I went it was presented by a female consultant gynaecologist who specialises in menopause treatment and runs the workshop because she was taken aback at how her own admin team were struggling to access useful info from their gps.

Thank you @Lifeaintalwaysempty I suspected there was more to it but I wasn't sure what exactly. How utterly ironic and depressing. What I find rather strange is that I know none of my close girlfriends know about any of this. I'm wondering whether to tell them but I think I will let them enjoy life as they know it a while longer.

@NiceGerbil

Can you name and shame?

If it's a large employer they won't know it's you. Although understand if not obviously.

I genuinely can't believe that.

Did I miss s thread about it?

That's grotesque.

Even when a woman is kidnapped and murdered it's really important to say NAMALT and more than that state that all the men who work there are safe as houses? Statistically that's not going to be true is it.

Bloody hell.

It's a large nhs trust. I can't be more specific

I've had no response today. Think my next move is to spend the weekend constructing a well reasoned essay using many of the extremely well written and thought provoking points raised in this thread and then to send it to various people in the trust on Monday.
When I told my boss what I was up to she was impressed but warned me that I'll probably end up being co-opted onto the equality team. I highly doubt there are any middle aged heterosexual perimenopausal women in that group, so it wouldn't be a bad thing!

@NiceGerbil

I posted earlier to point out that

Menopause is still a topic that is not really discussed, although it's starting to be a bit more now.

The sensitivities around the topic do not seem to have been considered by the language the OP has complained about.

The best known thing about menopause is that your periods stop and that marks the end of your reproductive life.
For many women there is a lot of emotional overhead with this transition.
Some women have early menopause, limiting their childbearing years before they were expecting it. This can be a very big deal for them.
To say it's for people who menstruate when the whole point it it's the ceasing of that is also insensitive. Because it's defined by not menstruating any more. For women in peri they don't know if their next period will come or not. So are they menstruators or not?
Is a woman who does not have periods because she is ill, doing a lot of exercise, etc a menstruator? Periods are not an ongoing thing. They are unpredictable and we go through stages where they can stop. Come back. Etc. 'people who menstruate' is biologically illiterate as it does not reflect women's reality at all.

There is also the fact that there is a whole bunch of social judgement and bias around the menopause.

Eg
She's probably menopausal (emotional)
That no longer being fertile renders women pointless/ invisible to a fair extent to many people especially men
That attractiveness in women is pushed as very important in society. And it's linked with youth/ fertility. For many the transition is unwelcome and concern about what life will be like as they move into the 3rd stage of life (that only applies to women) is not uncommon
Women often hide at work if they are struggling as they fear losing their jobs

This is a massive sensitive area. The language is important.

The language used by the ops employer has taken zero account of the feelings of the vast vast vast majority of the group they are targeting.

You are so right with all of this.

Sunshine a large NHS trust?

That's even worse somehow. I mean, if it can be worse.

It's not like there's never been docs etc in the news for sex offences

I mean they didn't need to say it. What were they thinking?!

It was Soho's employer/ sector I was interested in as well.

When I told my boss what I was up to she was impressed but warned me that I'll probably end up being co-opted onto the equality team.

All the committees that people do not want to be bothered are open to entryism. Everyone just waits for someone else to do it. So that empty place on the parish council, or the school governors..... and the equality team. I am sure there are loads of people on here that would be really well up to speed with the necessary acts now .

It is really worthwhile and it is good to get the people involved who they are actually for, rather than people practicing for their stellar political career.

What is a gold star feminist?

It's what the enlightened, progressive ones think they are, proverbial gold stars and awards are given to them by those they shill for.

Is it?

I've only heard it in reference to sex and lesbians.

How odd.

On racism, seeing as we're being diverted. Has there been much work done to find out how terms like 'people who menstruate' land with women from different religious or ethnic backgrounds? And those with limited English?

I wouldn't be at all surprised if the results of any such work came back with exactly the same statistics and findings that the one on whether or not women knew what a cervix was did. Any work and the results would, of course, be ignored as it always is.

I've heard it used by those that pat the heads of those doing the graft for them, the fact it sounds incredibly patronising seems to woosh over the heads of those that are chuffed to receive it.

@NiceGerbil

Sunshine a large NHS trust?

That's even worse somehow. I mean, if it can be worse.

It's not like there's never been docs etc in the news for sex offences

I mean they didn't need to say it. What were they thinking?!

Over 14,000 staff!!

@Lifeaintalwaysempty

The idea that woman should not be named in a workshop about periods because it hurts the feeling of men is just breathtaking. Where is the common sense.

This.

Plain English. Just use the word woman. Simple.

@Diverze I've really enjoyed all of your posts