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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Women's libido - apparently they just don't know why it disappears?! WTAF?

93 replies

Triffid1 · 13/04/2021 10:35

This article re women's sexuality and covid has been annoying me since I read it yesterday. In summary, they start by saying everyone thought we'd al be having loads of sex in Covid but it turns out we weren't and then it turns out that women's libidos are the reason. Then the article goes on to discuss how men's libido stays consistent throughout a relationship/time but that women's libido drops off.

These two paragraphs in particular sort of sum up how the article (and the experts the reporter is talking to) is considering the issue:

"Both start their relationship with similar honeymoonish levels of desire. But a year on and women are already disengaging. The fall in interest drops off several cliffs at the five and ten-year marks. Women are twice as likely as men to lose desire in long-term relationships. Of particular relevance to lockdown: those women living with their partners were more likely to lose interest than those in distanced long-term relationships."

"There are several ways to interpret these findings. One is that women have a limited amount of sexual drive, that they spend early on in any relationship and then the cupboard is bare. The other is that women crave sexual variety, a view that is supported by recent evolutionary theory that early human females, while pair-bonded, were frequently unfaithful in ways that maximised their offspring’s genetic advantage."

Then there's this:

"[quoting an expert on a study] "We found that when men were in a relationship with a woman they were much less likely to report masturbation. It was completely the reverse for women, who masturbated more when in a relationship with a man. The whole idea about masturbation being a substitute for partner sex, which has been around a long time, seems to be supportive for men, but for women not at all.”

"Graham says that they are not really sure why women masturbate more in heterosexual relationships, and also why they often do this in secret."

And then there's quite a lot of chat that maybe it's because the sex is bad (in a relationship).

This article has really really annoyed me. Did no one stop to think that maybe the reason women are less interested in sex is because of what's going on in the relationship? That maybe, in the early days, it's all sunshine and flowers and romantic gestures but even a year in, all those women suddenly find themselves doing more? More cleaning, more cooking, more mental thinking? We all know studies show that women in long term heterosexual relationships do more household tasks than any other group. After even just a year, I bet you that the lovely man who planned a gorgeous romantic weekend away in week 3 has already stopped thinking about all holidays and weekend breaks and it's falling on the woman? And that' before we even get to the childcare.

As for lockdown - again, studies have already told us that women were doing more. That they were bearing the brunt of the homeschooling and home management while still trying to work. That they were the ones up late at night worrying about the mental health impact on their children or dealing with the DC's tantrums and tears because they missed their friends. Men weren't doing this. So are we surprised that women didn't exactly feel like getting a little sex in ?

As for the bloody masturbation thing.... well, I can't speak for other women but maybe it's because women DO want orgasms but quite frankly, don't want the time, effort or other touch? Or even the need to think about someone else? I didn't even have to do the homeschooling thing but I can tell you that by the end of the day, I was touched out. I don't want someone touching and kissing me.

Tell me it's not just me? This entire premise that libido is completely separate from all the other stuff that goes on in life and that women's libido just mysteriously disappears blows my tiny little mind.

OP posts:
Aspiringmatriarch · 13/04/2021 15:38

Wow, CharlyParly, I'd love to know your secret! I think some couples do have more long-lasting chemistry. I'm curious as to why!

GNCQ · 13/04/2021 15:46

We found that when men were in a relationship with a woman they were much less likely to report masturbation

Hahaha o my god talk about observer bias or what. "Reporting masturbation" is slightly different to actually doing it.

Has the porn industry completely passed this "reporter" by?

The largest consumers of porn are males. The vast majority of whom are in a relationship.

Something like 1/3 of porn users are female, yes ok women can wank without porn, but still.

You see a huge number of threads on the Relationship board started by women who's husband can't stop wanking off to porn.

Sorry this article is a crock of shit.

FlaviaAlbiaWantsLangClegBack · 13/04/2021 15:48

"Women are twice as likely as men to lose desire in long-term relationships. Of particular relevance to lockdown: those women living with their partners were more likely to lose interest than those in distanced long-term relationships."

Honestly, do they get paid for coming up with this?
I've been with DH for more than half my life at this point. I love him and fancy him, he pulls his weight around the house and with the kids and does the thoughtful little things that are like glue in relationships but frankly, I was ready to camp in the garden some nights to get away from any and all humans. You can't even go for walks to get some solitude because that's all we were allowed to do so every fucker was out there too...

FlaviaAlbiaWantsLangClegBack · 13/04/2021 15:49

Sigh. Sorry, that was a rant and fucker was probably a poor choice of words in this context...

Melroses · 13/04/2021 16:04

@FlaviaAlbiaWantsLangClegBack

Sigh. Sorry, that was a rant and fucker was probably a poor choice of words in this context...
But so true
Melroses · 13/04/2021 16:06

I wonder if a lot of men hide their own lack of libido behind their partner's issues.

WeeBisom · 13/04/2021 16:15

The book “come as you are” has been mentioned and I’ve just started it. It’s a bit frustrating to me because she defines woman as anyone who has a female body and the “psychological identity of ‘woman’” A minor point perhaps, but I don’t believe I have a particularly womanly psychology. She also takes great pains to emphasise that the female genitalia are functionally and structurally the same as male genitalia - so the clitoris is the penis etc. The aim of this is to make women feel normal (cos men have those parts too.) But reading it does feel very Ancient Greek “women are just a kind of men.” It would be nice to see some acknowledgment that women have their own unique body parts and they aren’t just males. I’m early on in the book but so far it’s not clicking with me.

FlaviaAlbiaWantsLangClegBack · 13/04/2021 16:19

Melroses Grin

Triffid1 · 13/04/2021 16:19

@FlaviaAlbiaWantsLangClegBack

Sigh. Sorry, that was a rant and fucker was probably a poor choice of words in this context...
That made me laugh, thank you.

But yes, so true. I don't want sex, I want to be left alone for more than 15 minutes.

OP posts:
Tomatobear · 13/04/2021 16:20

@CongealedCrags

Not just you.

I'd love to see the parallel study which looks at the amount of housework, life administration and childcare done by women vs men over the course of the relationship.

I would bet money, lots of money, that women's desire to have sex with men is directly linked to how much of a chore-dodging man-child she's living with.

Exactly this! Has always been the case for me anyway. Those who pitched in and didn't make me feel like a skivvy got far more of it. I wonder why?! Hmm
likeamillpond · 13/04/2021 16:39

Testosterone fuels sex drive in men and women.
As women age the little bit of testosterone they do have disappears altogether and that's when their sex drive usually takes a nosedive.
It can happen that younger women are too low in testosterone as well.

That's why a lot of women are campaigning for a small amount of testosterone to be added as part of womens HRT treatment plan if it's deemed she needs it.
Currently they only get prescribed progesterone and oestrogen.
They will prescribe it in other countries and women swear by it and say it's saved their relationships.
But in the UK GPs are reluctant to prescribe it, so lots of relationships suffer unnecessarily as a result.
When it comes to healthcare, and especially womens sexual health and wellbeing, women are treated shockingly imo.

QuentinWinters · 13/04/2021 16:53

Huh. Tell me about it millpond. I've recently been prescribed hormonal treatment for PMDD. My GP won't prescribe it as its not standard for them, insists I see a consultant. I have health insurance through work so used that to see the consultant. Insurer now won't cover me because "HRT is out of policy". Consultant says she will see me in the NHS which makes a mockery of the insurance AngryAngry
She also said that as well as HRTnot being covered by insurance many GP commissioning groups won't refer to her menopause clinic for specialist HRT help. So what are women suffering meant to do??
It is just outrageously sexist and gives me the proper rage.

Kotatsu · 13/04/2021 17:06

Doing bugger all, leaving it all to me, getting up after I've left to take the kids to school, staying up late, then coming to bed when I'm already asleep and wanting sex. Going straight into rough groping, hammering away because he's been death-grip masterbating and can't feel it otherwise, losing his libido for a bit, leaving me hanging and then expecting mine to just turn back on when he's ready. Spending no time with me, having no fun, and still thinking that I wanted to have sex with him. Taking no responsibility for contraception, even though I've made it very clear I'm not having another child, and I'm not doing the pill again.

Yeah, total mystery.

QuentinWinters · 13/04/2021 17:09

kotatsu Flowers
You don't have to live like that.

ArabellaScott · 13/04/2021 17:24

Kotatsu, that's rubbish. I'm sorry.

I think that the pill often fucks up women's attractions. Not mad keen on Psychology Today, but there's an article here that touches on various factors/issues to do with hormonal affects of the pill.

www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/intimately-connected/201901/do-contraceptive-pills-affect-attraction

Shehasadiamondinthesky · 13/04/2021 17:36

I would bet money, lots of money, that women's desire to have sex with men is directly linked to how much of a chore-dodging man-child she's living with.

This basically. Every single time. kills my libido stone dead.

ANewDawnANewDay · 13/04/2021 17:40

DH is never sexier than when he rolls up his sleeves and does the washing up BUT no bragging, no hints, he shouldn't expect sex after that.
It's like The Game - if he thinks it, the 'sexy' disappears.

GoWalkabout · 13/04/2021 17:45

In wifework she writes about how early relationship 'egalitarian' sexual relationships morph into 'servicing his needs' kind of sex, just like she started taking on more domestic planning and chores. Then woke up and realised this wasn't the sex she wanted. Personally post 50 sex is getting better again, because it's less penis related.

InvisibleDragon · 13/04/2021 17:46

Another reason besides housework ime is nagging/pressure. Nothing makes me want sex less than feeling like I have a chore to do in servicing my partner.

Completely this. In my case, it's unfortunately not really my DH's fault. More that I spent too long in a sexually coercive relationship, which had given me a lot of negative associations and anxiety around sex.

I'd like to enjoy and desire sex more than I do. And slowly, slowly I'm getting there. But you can't just erase years of sexual coercion because you're now in a loving relationship. I wish you could because I'm sick of therapy, but you can't.

I suspect this experience is more common than it seems.

TeiTetua · 13/04/2021 19:47

I don't think you can claim it's totally men's fault that women lose the urge to have sex in a long-term relationship. When lesbians speak up about "lesbian bed death" as they have, it's clearly something else, the exception that proves the rule maybe, if the rule is "people tend to get bored with sex". Let's say men's behaviour contributes to the situation.

In a previous relationship, we used to talk about "Old shoe sex" and whether it was a thing we wanted or not. The idea that you'd done it exactly the same way with the same person lots of times before, and it's comfortable and predictable--is that enough, or do we need more than that to keep the desire going? (We never reached a clear answer.)

Kotatsu · 13/04/2021 20:10

Oh, I don't live like that any more thank goodness - and funnily enough, my libido is coming back - dreams, desires etc.

ie. it's not at all that I (And I suspect most women) don't want to have sex, it's that they don't want the sex they're being offered (or having demanded of them)

SwanShaped · 13/04/2021 20:19

There is nothing more unattractive than a lazy or inconsiderate man. Chore-dodging man child. There’s so many of them out there and I always wonder how their partners ever want sex with them.

Deliriumoftheendless · 13/04/2021 20:29

My sex drive started to go after having a child- and I had stopped being attracted to my partner as well, then gradually I found I didn’t like him very much either with the result I had zero sex drive.

We split up, months later I had a fling and by God did it come back.

MissBarbary · 13/04/2021 20:31

@Copernico

I can relate to the loss of libido and it’s definitely nothing to do with my husband not doing enough childcare or housework. He’s amazing at all that.
Nothing to do with too much housework in my case. I hardly do any, never have, and when we don't have a cleaner my husband did and does gazillions more than me. I literally haven't switched on a hoover in over 30 years.

I think it's boredom, not necessarily relationship problems per se, although I'm sure that doesn't help. And living with someone for a long time you can end up feeling more like siblings - it's just not erotic

Yes, second the above.

Therewereroses · 13/04/2021 20:47

Ok, this turned out to be long. I've a very low libido these days, but there are oh so many factors as to why. Wouldn't bother me if I never had sex. No desire to masturbate either.

I sometimes find it all a little crass and animal-like. It's hard to describe it. I hate feeling like an object and am almost ashamed of myself for deriving sexual pleasure. I suspect there is also some residual Catholic guilt involved.

I think sexual assault in the past has affected me in a way I've never bothered to explore in therapy which might be why I find it such a base thing.

Prior to this, an extreme fear of getting pregnant was a huge factor. I cannot tell you how big of an issue this was. Nothing like the thoughts of an unwanted pregnancy to cool your ardour.

When I am fit, exercising and slim and strong, I've more desire with a new partner. Partly due to body confidence and partly because my body is more capable of the gymnastics required for me to personally orgasm. I also suspect exercise and fresh air might increase whatever hormones make you desire sex. When I'm unfit, blobby and look like shit, nope, no desire. Have any of you ever cramped while in the throes of passion lol? I seize up like an old car which hadn't been brought out for a while. On more than one occasion in the past my moaning and involuntary spasms due to cramped feet and legs has been mistaken for a powerful orgasm. Grin

Sexual coercion and coming across like a dog with two bugeens was a guaranteed buzz killer in the past. Fuck off. Get the hell away from me with your grubby paws.

I am far more likely to feel desire when I find it believable that someone desires me. By that I mean that when I'm single and dating, I'll have shaved, moisturised, painted toe-nails, put on tan, dressed up, had hair done and had make-up done. I feel far more attractive then so am more likely to feel desire as I can believe that a man does actually desire me. By contrast, in a comfortable long-term relationship where I come home, the bra comes off, the g-string comes off, the big knickers comes out along with the socks and baggy loungewear. For some reason I don't in such instances find it believable that my partner could actually find me attractive and I feel like it's a case of 'any hole will do'. That doesn't turn me on.

Weather! In Winter and the cold, I wear the warmest, most snug and comfortable clothing possible to bed (including socks). A veritable yeti. In Summer however, where I wear less clothing in bed and I suppose the 'skin to skin' contact contributes to arousal perhaps. I suppose this is why Italians and those with warmer climates are more renowned for their libido.

Like a pp, different timings for libido. Wake me up from my precious sleep fondling me with something poking me in the back and you'll soon fucking regret it. I cannot stand it whereas other women find this a turn-on. We had a term for my midnight or dawn reactions to an uninvited come-on - 'the asses kick'. He would quite literally get a backwards donkey kick to get him away from me. Being a resilient sort it never thwarted him long-term, but that was just that relationship really lol. I'm not generally in the habit of physically assaulting boyfriends (he exaggerated that it was a kick - it was moreso me moving him away from me with my legs). On the other hand, when I do have desire is after a few drinks. This is fine once the man has no issues with erections after alcohol. Men often seem too tired by the time I'm up for it and not only that but roll over and snore like a big right after the act. Ew. Likewise, when I'm out of the shower, make-up done and am getting ready for work or to go out, do not pick such a time to want to mess up my hair, makeup and sweat all over me. Pick a better time dude.

I can't say that I'm on medication that is known to affect libidio but I have been in the past which might have been a factor at times.

There has been a noticeable diminishing of my libido over the years but there are so many factors involved, none of which I would attribute to biological aging factors exactly. Yes as I've mentioned, there are physical elements, but that's not age-related. When I was fat and younger I had as much desire then as as do now when I feel like shit.

I'm also far less likely to simply not entertain the idea the older that I've got. When younger, I would have been more open to sexual advances when not aroused as I knew that I would become aroused in the process.

I have no peer reviewed evidence for any of the above. They are quite simply my own very personal experiences and surmisations.

In summary, start working out, do some yoga, get loads of fresh air, move to a sunny climate, wear little or nothing in bed, get that rusty razor out and shave groom, doll yourself up so that you like what you see in the mirror, have a few glasses of wine and off you go!

Or you could resign yourself to a sexless existence like moi Grin