Richard Dawkins - request for discussion on Identity

[MrsMidClegs]

"In 2015, Rachel Dolezal, a white chapter president of NAACP, was vilified for identifying as Black. Some men choose to identify as women, and some women choose to identify as men. You will be vilified if you deny that they literally are what they identify as.

Discuss."

twitter.com/richarddawkins/status/1380812852055973888?s=21

Quote from Myers: I was only able to handle a single sentence of Rowling’s screed— it was too stupid to bear

Which was the stupid sentence, I wonder? The first one? It went like this:

"This isn’t an easy piece to write, for reasons that will shortly become clear, but I know it’s time to explain myself on an issue surrounded by toxicity."

It's hard to see what's so stupid about this, so maybe he didn't read this sentence. Maybe he started in the middle. Perhaps that's why he found it stupid - he hadn't read all the argument leading up to it.

Should someone point out to Myers that when reading an essay, normal practice is to start at the beginning?

“ Dawkins said that he had accepted the decision of the AHA and taken steps to expunge the award. “Thinking to do my duty by deleting the entry, I opened up my CV,” he said. “Only to discover that there was nothing to delete.”

Haha fair play to him there

[quote rogdmum]Steven Pinker and Rebecca Goldstein (both AHA award holders) are not amused and have written a rather excellent letter to AHA. Worth a read if you are on Twitter

twitter.com/sapinker/status/1385011253924478981?s=21[/quote]
Not bad. I'd be more impressed if they handed back their awards, too.

That is a terrific letter. I love the line "To demonize a writer rather than address the writer's arguments is a confession that one has no rational response to them."

From twitter:

Well no turning back from that statement. That's not asking a question where he can half hide behind intellectual inquiry. That's some full on heresy.

Is that an old tweet or something? Didn't notice it when I looked.

It was around the time of the first controversial tweet.

Oh I don't think he altered that tweet himself.

This piece gives quotes on various atheists defending Dawkins:

friendlyatheist.patheos.com/2021/04/22/heres-how-well-known-atheists-are-defending-richard-dawkins-anti-trans-tweet/

Although the author of it is hostile to Dawkins.

I enjoyed that piece, Zinco. I have never had any significant interest in the atheist movement, but am glad there isn’t blanket adherence to the orthodoxy, even if some of the pushback is more against #nodebate than specific criticism of the movement. Debate away. That’s what is needed.

Although the author of it is hostile to Dawkins.

Bless. He sounds a bit concerned that many prominent atheists are defending Dawkins and free thinking, and worried that it's them who will be asked for quotes by the media.

Letter fron Maya Forstater to DAwkins

thecritic.co.uk/welcome-to-the-terf-wars/?fbclid=IwAR1feEQZ2DJ3BM2xr_YhTQ86PpC_TePw6Qnu5loF5qeEAYOlHppCcWv9FfE

Sam Harris has tweeted in support, too. This is quite exciting.

twitter.com/SamHarrisOrg/status/1384578961078849537

[quote ArabellaScott]Letter fron Maya Forstater to DAwkins

thecritic.co.uk/welcome-to-the-terf-wars/?fbclid=IwAR1feEQZ2DJ3BM2xr_YhTQ86PpC_TePw6Qnu5loF5qeEAYOlHppCcWv9FfE

Sam Harris has tweeted in support, too. This is quite exciting.

twitter.com/SamHarrisOrg/status/1384578961078849537[/quote]
Ahhh, sunlight...

"So much for evidence base! Where's the proof that we're struggling, Sam?"

twitter.com/americnhumanist/status/1384580743326801920?s=20

Replies to this are overwhelmingly NOT in support of AHA.

Just noticed Humanists UK reposted an interview with their patron, Dawkins, yesterday.

twitter.com/Humanists_UK/status/1385172045407850496

Quite interesting about Humanists UK, given that Maria Maclachlan fell out with them over their stance on trans issues.

Yes, as far as I can remember they've been pretty TWAW so far.

@Zinco

This piece gives quotes on various atheists defending Dawkins:

friendlyatheist.patheos.com/2021/04/22/heres-how-well-known-atheists-are-defending-richard-dawkins-anti-trans-tweet/

Although the author of it is hostile to Dawkins.

Interesting piece, thanks for sharing zinco

I also read the companion piece linked at the bottom, which listed all the double plus good thinkers. It made me sad because there are names there that do podcasts I really used to enjoy, like the Scathing Atheist. Very funny, but a couple of years back they all but stopped taking the piss out of religious people doing bonkers things and started yelling through my earphones about trans issues instead, and inviting their trans friends on for more of the same...I stopped listening.

The atheist/skeptic community has never been that great for women, and I guess this is a further spasm in that direction.

I've always thought Myers was a sneering, condescending prick. Much like Dawkins, but at least Dawkins is staying true to his principles when it comes to science and religion.

Yeah despite writing a book called "The Happy Atheist", and claiming to be progressive and a feminist, PZ Myers appears to be fairly notorious for his angry, hateful, bad behaviour.

E.g.:

atheist.ie/2015/04/atheist-ireland-dissociates-from-pz-myers/

Personally I was always a fan of Sam Harris, in that, whether or not you agree with him, (I often don't), he conducts himself in the right way and is always capable of calm, rational discussion of a subject.

Dawkins may be far from perfect, but he is nothing like PZ Myers imo. Myers is just an unpleasant bully. (That's the polite way to put it.)

Dawkins has just shared this. It's obviously a long standing blog by a skeptic/rationalist type. It starts off with some assumptions about the biological basis of trans identities expresses in a way that sounds very much like the police officer in the Harry the owl case - a woman's brain grows in a man's body which made me face-palm a bit.

But after that it goes through the worries about child transition, and boys in girls sport, the closing down of duscussion, the treatment of jkr and Dawkins. It's quite a good summary.
rationaloptimist.wordpress.com/

Looks like he's not dropping it.

Link to the specific blog post for future reference.
rationaloptimist.wordpress.com/2021/04/29/transgender-wars-2/

It's a bit compromisingly waffly.