Pro-porn Childline film encouraging kids to google BDSM etc

[Sunkisses]

Jeez, just seen this from the Safe Schools Alliance UK on twitter. Six years ago Childline produced this pro-porn film which is basically an advert for PornHub masquerading as a child protection resource. It tells children that porn is "fun" & recommends genres like BDSM to google. It's had over 3 million views in the last 6 years, and goodness knows how much it has contributed to the rape culture we are now seeing in schools. It is illegal for under 18s to view porn, and children should be taught this and the harms of pornography, not encouraged to view it with a nod, nod, wink, wink attitude.

You can view the Safe Schools Alliance UK tweet here: twitter.com/SafeSchools_UK/status/1379528765261381634

SSAUK are calling on Childline and the NSPCC (who run Childline) to take this film down.

The Government should bring in age-verification for online porn ASAP to prevent children having easy access to online porn. All the laws have been passed, and the regulatory framework is in place. The Government bottled it at the last minute in 2019 after facing pressure from the powerful porn industry. Our children deserve better.

How do you separate them?

If you mean that genuinely, Rabbit, for me the difference is the fact that pornography is (on some level) innate whereas the porn industry is an insidious abuse of the physical reaction humans have when they see sexual stimuli. E.g. cavemen were drawing men with big willies on walls because it excited them, whereas the routine abuse and exploitation involved in the porn industry is a disgusting byproduct of people desiring money. I think that's how feminist / ethical porn can be justified. That's not to say porn can automatically exist in the modern era in a healthy way, because it would require equal treatment of women and an extreme cultural shift because of the pervading impact of the porn industry, but the two aren't necessarily the same thing. Just semantics, I guess!

That's not to say porn can automatically exist in the modern era in a healthy way, because it would require equal treatment of women and an extreme cultural shift because of the pervading impact of the porn industry

That I agree with.

For under 18s? Maybe you have the evidence I asked other posters for? Studies that show it has positive benefits for under 18s to consume porn. That is the sole topic of this thread. Under 18 consumption of porn.

I think porn for the under 18s would not be as harmful if it were irrespective to the porn industry (for example, no exploitation of women, no violence, no abuse). Whether we should be glorifying it or recommending it, I would say no, but I also think healthy experimentation is an important stage of growing up - I say this in relation to "ethical" pornography rather than the mass-produced violent pornography that comes from the porn industry.

That was my opinion until very recently (as an ex user of pornography). I have changed my opinion and have been faring ok without it. It is a lazy option, not a right. Humans are drawn to erotic images, and visually stimulated yes, that is not inherently bad, but there is no way of supplying images of real people in a non exploitative way.

Oh sorry that was an attettempt at a quote responding to cabletoss.

I have changed my opinion and have been faring ok without it. It is a lazy option, not a right. Humans are drawn to erotic images, and visually stimulated yes, that is not inherently bad, but there is no way of supplying images of real people in a non exploitative way.

(To my knowledge) the word "pornography" also makes reference to written erotica, as a side note. I agree in this current socio-economic climate that it is increasingly difficult to ethically source (and I imagine produce) pornography. And I also agree that we would have to make some massive changes to many aspects of Western culture with sex based rights and capitalism being a few, but I do believe it's possible. I don't think pornography as a concept is inherently corrupt or harmful.

*The posting pattern is always pretty similar:

Everyone does it
It's completely normal
Loads of people doing it enjoy it, good money
All men do it
If they say they don't they're lying
You're old fashioned/ a prude/ being cheated on/ etc etc*

And also

"But your children have access to the internet so will learn it whether you like it or not"

If ever there was an argument for

The online harms bill
Tighter restrictions on what it available on the internet (and maybe not giving the contract to MindGeek, makers of PornHub)
Using parental controls
Keeping you kids away from computers
Keeping your kids away from other kids with computers, parents who think porn if fun
Keeping your kids way from kids who use their phones to watch porn in the playground
Keeping your kids away from head teachers, teachers, external PSHE/RSE providers who think porn is fun
Keeping your kids away from ANYONE who think "porn is normal, fun and everybody watches it so why don't you?"

...with the last one being what is called peer pressure.

This thread is an education in the true sense of how exposure can warp your thinking.

Not that I was a fan but in the pattern of Tony Blair

Safeguarding
Safeguarding
Safeguarding

'Throwing in a small opinion - pornography is not innately unhealthy, but the porn industry is'

Well sure I tend to agree.

In a totally different utopian world, with no patriarchy, no oppression of any groups, no capitalist manipulation of people for profit, no exploitation, no financial pressures etc etc

Then sure. But would porn exist and if so in what form?

And it's a pointless point anyway, because we will never live in that world in our lifetimes. It's a different discussion.

The examples given above about how people have always made these images, are mostly male. Drawing dicks over everything (why???).

The ancient Greeks had an eye for an attractive man but apart from that it's mainly images of women surely?! Male gaze for centuries. And has pornography in our current understanding really existed forever? Anyway that's an aside.

Whether or not there is anything inherently wrong with porn images using actual people is a different conversation.

I don't think pornography as a concept is inherently corrupt or harmful.

As a concept, no. As a reality, clearly. Sex, is sex, is sex. Most people need it. Many enjoy watching it. Whatever. We don't have a right to exploit people for our own pleasure. We should question where it comes from, who made it, why the (mostly) women involved in it are involved in it, where trafficking and child sexual abuse comes into it and we should vote with our feet. In the same way progressives are prepared to do when it comes fair trade, or ethical fashion. They think harder about the real people involved. No one has a human right to a wank at another's expense. And before we get onto the myth of the happy sex worker/porn star - do some googling about porn and trafficking, CSA, what women in the porn industry are actually paid on average (last time I looked it was $30,000 in the US). Above all let's stop pretending to young people that this is harmless fun and let's explain who loses in this game, let's explain that porn seems to get more extreme and violent as we become desensitised to it and that this is driven by our relationship with porn and not our sexual needs.

ASugarr
Child pornography' is the term most commonly used with the media which is why many of those who work with young people use it as its the most common term to them. I understand that porn isn't "made for children" and that any porn with a minor is sexual abuse and illegal. However it is just the most commonly used term.

You claim you're in a position of teaching children about sexual health, and you don't understand the use of the world child pornography?? It's not just trying to normalise the rape of children, it should obviously never be used in respect of talking to children.

There will be children in your group who have been abused. Children who have suffered from CSA. And you are blithely calling it pornography. In the same breath as talking about what children might 'disclose' to you??

And no, quickly googling the use of the term 'child porn' to justify your comments is transparent. Why would someone in a position of safeguarding and dealing with underage children be persuaded to use terminology, against all guidelines, because of a decade old article?

Show me the studies that prove underage children watching pornography is in any way beneficial.

Oh and the other thing.

Whenever and wherever years ago.

Everyone knew about sex. Animals have sex and then have babies. People used to live in much more shared spaces. Whole families in one space or multiple families in a larger shared space.

Where did sex happen?

I mean history etc isn't my thing. But it just seems unlikely that the current view is how people have always been, everywhere.

In England we've had the puritans and then the whole Victorian thing.

And TBH when I was young and hedge porn was a thing, pubes were generally not shaved and anal was not at all a standard thing. The joy of sex was still on the shelves. Boys and men did NOT (unless they were bastards or dangerous weirdos) want, ask or just go ahead and throttle you, shove their dick up your arse, come on your face or hit you (a slap is a hit- it hurts).

These changes in what boys and men want and expect are driven by porn. And these things have changed fast.

But people deny it. Men and women. Why? Again, what is the psychology?

Datum “Show me the studies that prove underage children watching pornography is in any way beneficial.”

Quite.

It either induces horror and upset or incites sexual feelings away from any natural context - grooming and abusive.

Show me the studies that prove underage children watching pornography is in any way beneficial.

I have asked twice. It has been ignored. Completely. I am going to keep asking though. Because if a person is teaching porn is ‘fun and fine’ to children, they better have some well documented and robust evidence to support that.

This is potentially our children this person is teaching. Or our children’s future partners? This is being taught to very vulnerable children too as well as children whose parents have already given a solid grounding in the negative affects of porn as it is consumed today.

I am glad that I have spoken with my teen’s school about the material they teach and the heavy focus on consent that the school takes. Seeing someone who professes to be a professional make these statements is a huge concern. Particularly, if they cannot provide evidence that porn has a positive benefit for teens...

@Datun

ASugarr Child pornography' is the term most commonly used with the media which is why many of those who work with young people use it as its the most common term to them. I understand that porn isn't "made for children" and that any porn with a minor is sexual abuse and illegal. However it is just the most commonly used term.

You claim you're in a position of teaching children about sexual health, and you don't understand the use of the world child pornography?? It's not just trying to normalise the rape of children, it should obviously never be used in respect of talking to children.

There will be children in your group who have been abused. Children who have suffered from CSA. And you are blithely calling it pornography. In the same breath as talking about what children might 'disclose' to you??

And no, quickly googling the use of the term 'child porn' to justify your comments is transparent. Why would someone in a position of safeguarding and dealing with underage children be persuaded to use terminology, against all guidelines, because of a decade old article?

Show me the studies that prove underage children watching pornography is in any way beneficial.

The point that there are benefits to young people watching porn. That's not what anyone is promoting. However there are benefits of young people knowing more information about pornography.

www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/is-porn-bad#society

www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/article/bb79a2ce-0de4-4965-98f0-9ebbcfcc2a60

uksaysnomore.org/talkingtoyoungpeopleaboutporn/

Sorry the last link here

uksaysnomore.org/talkingtoyoungpeopleaboutporn/

[quote ASugarr]Sorry the last link here

uksaysnomore.org/talkingtoyoungpeopleaboutporn/[/quote]
www.uksaysnomore.org/talkingtoyoungpeopleaboutporn

No ASugar. You say you are not promoting it. Yet you have agreed here that the message this video is giving with the opening and closing minutes is that porn is ‘fun and fine’ and this is a great video to show children.

So, we can only assume that you believe that is the message children should have. In my view, and I am sure most logical thinkers would agree, that is promoting porn to children. You have been repeatedly been told the message being communicated by this video is confused and basically only superficially addresses negative issues and finishes up with the ‘fun and fine’ message.

So, again. This video reinforces the ‘fun and fine’ message. This is promoting porn to the viewer, children.

Again. Where are the studies that state there is a positive benefit in teens watching porn? Where is the evidence that shows it is ‘fun and fine’ for children to the consuming porn under 18?

Please start supporting your statements with evidence. Or explain why the message that porn is ‘fun and fine’ is NOT promoting porn.

@Helleofabore

No ASugar. You say you are not promoting it. Yet you have agreed here that the message this video is giving with the opening and closing minutes is that porn is ‘fun and fine’ and this is a great video to show children.

So, we can only assume that you believe that is the message children should have. In my view, and I am sure most logical thinkers would agree, that is promoting porn to children. You have been repeatedly been told the message being communicated by this video is confused and basically only superficially addresses negative issues and finishes up with the ‘fun and fine’ message.

So, again. This video reinforces the ‘fun and fine’ message. This is promoting porn to the viewer, children.

Again. Where are the studies that state there is a positive benefit in teens watching porn? Where is the evidence that shows it is ‘fun and fine’ for children to the consuming porn under 18?

Please start supporting your statements with evidence. Or explain why the message that porn is ‘fun and fine’ is NOT promoting porn.

Exactly this.

That video, ASugarr, was not an educational video on the dangers of porn and CSA aimed at children. It was the opposite. With a half arsed caveat.

From the UKsaysnomore link posted.

WHAT NEEDS TO CHANGE?

We must call on the government to ensure that all children and young people receive a rounded, informative and empowering age-appropriate sex and relationship education (SRE) throughout their time at school and college.

What part of ‘rounded, infomative, empowering’, does this video fulfill? You are the expert here.

Please show us what we are missing that you are seeing in the messaging of this video?

Also what was the exact point of checking that everyone was over 18, and then making sure that it was clearly a very young child who responded?

@Datun

Also what was the exact point of checking that everyone was over 18, and then making sure that it was clearly a very young child who responded?

And making it humorous?

The point that there are benefits to young people watching porn.

Please tell us what these benefits are for those under 18?

That's not what anyone is promoting. This video’s reinforced message is that it is ‘fun and fine’. This is promoting porn to children.

However there are benefits of young people knowing more information about pornography.

Yes. In a very balanced discussion. Not with a video that makes light of it, who spends 3/4 of the video in light hearted ‘bantering’ discussion that overwhelms any message about the negative issues. In a discussion that should focus very heavily on consent, on the fact that this is not reality (and not with the presenter stating how much they wished they had porn star appeal), the reality of the exploitive nature of porn not just the illegal porn, but how most porn available today exploits those producing it, and that it leads to many mental health issues now and in the future.

Helleofabore

Datun

Also what was theexactpoint of checking that everyone was over 18, and then making sure that it was clearly a very young child who responded?

And making it humorous?

That was vile.

@MissBarbary

Helleofabore

Datun

Also what was theexactpoint of checking that everyone was over 18, and then making sure that it was clearly a very young child who responded?

And making it humorous?

That was vile.

Yes.

That it was a very young child adds to the ‘fun and fine’ message. The message that even those very young shouldn’t take any notice of the age ratings. All a bit of ‘fun’. And totally fine in moderation.

Just like alcohol, which is also legal in certain circumstances to provide for under 18s. Yet, no video about alcohol would EVER be allowed to have a presenter treat the age restrictions in this way, or to use the words ‘fun’. Why? because would be seen as promoting alcohol. There are actually very strict guidelines in place about this for alcohol.

Why is it so lax for porn?

Question: Since many of you think discussing pornography before being able to legally consume it is wrong, Then do you think the same about teaching those under the age of 16 about safe sex is the same? Do you consider it promoting have sex?

Because here's the thing, the government have already tried to run programs to telling young people "Don't have sex" and/or "Don't watch porn". And guess what? It didn't work. Pregnancy rates roses, porn consumption rised and even sexual assault cases rised. Because telling young people "Don't do this" without stating the facts as to why some people do and why it is and isn't okay is what they need to know to make a healthy choice for themselves.