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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

New book "Trans" by Helen Joyce

75 replies

Cismyfatarse · 06/04/2021 18:54

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Trans-When-Ideology-Meets-Reality/dp/0861540492/ref=sr11_1?dchild=1&keywords=Helen+Joyce&qid=1617731518&sr=8-1

I have just pre-ordered this. It looks really interesting and is endorsed by Jenni Murray amongst others. I think there is also the chance of a fund to try to get copies out to MPs etc. I am certain it will be worth a read. It would also be good if people could try to order it via libraries so that there are copies bought into local branches.

OP posts:
Mugginyouleftrightandcentre · 06/04/2021 18:57

I saw this earlier - fantastic that it has been endorsed by Jenni Murray.

I guess we now wait for the rabid campaign to get it taken off the shelves everywhere.

Flippin · 06/04/2021 19:02

Great news, I love her writing style and very much onboard with her views on the situation, definitely will be getting it once available!

NecessaryScene1 · 06/04/2021 19:04

It already has the all-important Owen Jones endorsement.

twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/1379463566718275586

FlyPassed · 06/04/2021 19:18

Looking forward to this!

Anyone who wants to avoid Amazon can use Hive instead and your lical bookshop gets a cut.

www.hive.co.uk/Product/Helen-Joyce/Trans--When-Ideology-Meets-Reality/25774311

www.hive.co.uk/WhatsHiveallabout

Scout2016 · 06/04/2021 19:24

Do you reckon this and Kathleen Stock's will cover similar ground? I'd been waiting on that one coming out but now I'm torn. Trans looks more holistic maybe? Probably no way to know this early on.

www.amazon.co.uk/Material-Girls-Kathleen-Stock/dp/0349726604?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

hoteltango · 06/04/2021 19:28

I've pre-ordered the kindle version.

If I can think of a way of donating this (and other similar books) to my local library but anonymously, I'll get a print copy as well.

Biscuitsanddoombar · 06/04/2021 19:33

I await the usual campaign to get it banned, Helen cancelled & the ritual photos of it being burned

Meanwhile I’ve pretty ordered it too

Ereshkigalangcleg · 06/04/2021 19:36

I had the pleasure of meeting Helen at a GC pub night just before the lockdown where she talked about working on the book. It's definitely on my list.

BettyFilous · 06/04/2021 19:38

One of the replies under Helen’s tweet directs readers towards Torrey Peters’ novel for a more authentic trans view. They’re not even in the same genre. 🙄 Wouldn't it be great to have an equivalent carefully researched and referenced non-fiction book laying out the arguments for the trans cause so that readers can compare & contrast and educate themselves on the issue? It’s not like there’s a shortage of academics and journalists with a passion for the cause. Why aren’t they stepping up to address the gap?

Sophoclesthefox · 06/04/2021 19:41

@Ereshkigalangcleg

I had the pleasure of meeting Helen at a GC pub night just before the lockdown where she talked about working on the book. It's definitely on my list.
Omg! You lucky thing, I would have fangirled so embarrassingly hard Grin

Looking forward to reading this, Helen is one smart cookie.

AnotherLass · 06/04/2021 20:13

I think that Helen's will be quite different from Kathleen Stock's, because from what people are saying Helen's contains a lot of history and analysis of where the gender ID movement came from.

Mugginyouleftrightandcentre · 06/04/2021 20:25

[quote NecessaryScene1]It already has the all-important Owen Jones endorsement.

twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/1379463566718275586[/quote]
Oh thank God! 😂

RabbitOfCaerbannog · 06/04/2021 20:28

[quote NecessaryScene1]It already has the all-important Owen Jones endorsement.

twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/1379463566718275586[/quote]
He's nothing if not predictable

toocold54 · 06/04/2021 20:32

As someone who is uneducated about trans people and the debates surrounding them (apart from what I read on here) I am definitely interested in giving this book a read. I would also like recommendations of the opposite debate so I can fully understand both sides.

IDanielRadcliffe · 06/04/2021 20:34

There’s a good interview with HJ on one of Meghan Murphy’s podcasts if anyone’s interested.

Defaultname · 06/04/2021 20:49

[quote NecessaryScene1]It already has the all-important Owen Jones endorsement.

twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/1379463566718275586[/quote]
I see that someone's thanking him for "standing up for marginalized women". (I think they mean 'marginal women').

I'm assuming he's got hold of a pre-publication/review copy of the book?

ArabellaScott · 06/04/2021 20:57

Holy moly, it's at 150 on the bestseller list. That's quite astonishing.

ArabellaScott · 06/04/2021 20:59

Owen doing great work, getting the word out, there!

ListeningQuietly · 06/04/2021 21:13

Owen has increased its sales many fold I suspect

zanahoria · 06/04/2021 21:17

Owen will be distributing lists of permited books for Labour Party members

Xiaoxiong · 06/04/2021 21:25

@toocold54 it's difficult to find a book that isn't a memoir of one person's trans experience, which, while often very sad, are by definition personal and anecdotal. To try to educate myself on both sides of this issue I read quite a few. Much more useful to challenge myself and my own views were Unbound by Arlene Stein and Transgender History by Susan Stryker.

I started Juno Dawson's book The Gender Games but couldn't finish it and it shared the problems of many of the memoirs, being mainly anecdotal and dare I say, navel gazing and rather wrapped up in their own experience with no exploration of any impact the person's triumphant transition may have on the people and communities around them.

I felt the need to read all these when desperately trying to understand what was going on and to give the other side of the argument a fair hearing. I would recommend the Stein and Stryker books to anyone on here, as it's important to educate ourselves fully and keep an open mind.

Reading these books certainly convinced me that on balance, I find gender critical arguments are more convincing and coherent. But the miseries of the memoirs also convinced me that we need to massively increase mental health provision, reduce the time teenagers spend online thinking about this stuff, accept LGB people, especially kids, unconditionally and eradicate homophobia, and try to widen our bandwidth of what it means to be a man or a woman without permanently medicalising children or causing a permanent loss of function through surgery on healthy bodies.

InsideNumberNine · 06/04/2021 21:25

Thanks for the heads up! Just ordered this and the KS one which I wasn't aware of 👍🏻

Xiaoxiong · 06/04/2021 21:38

I actually find reading books from a trans perspective more valuable than reading books on the GC side of the arguments which I know I already agree with. I do try and seek out the strongest form of the opposite argument to see if it has merit and challenges my position.

Would be very interested to hear from the non-GC voices on this board if there are any other books I should be reading that may argue the case more effectively as I have not read anything convincing thus far.

GreyhoundG1rl · 06/04/2021 21:41

I see that someone's thanking him for "standing up for marginalized women". (I think they mean 'marginal women').
Grin. I love that.

1WayOrAnother2 · 06/04/2021 21:45

Thank-you this one is on my list now.
I'd also like a good one on the other side... if there is such a thing?

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