Trans athletes in women's sports speak out - RT documentary

[SunsetBeetch]

Featuring Rachel McKinnon / Veronica Ivy.

Enjoy

Thanks for the article link.
To be allowed higher levels than the women competing is bizarre.

I looked up male (life course) testosterone levels and they are massive in comparison to women's. Without testing, competing would be futile.

Ariela, how about because separate categories aren't needed? Everyone is either male or female.

Daisies, I believe that Dr McK didn't get much coaching in track cycling while living as a man, because Dr McK only took up track cycling a very short time before suddenly becoming Masters' women's world champion. What an incredible new talent in women's cycling Dr McK turned out to be.

Well at least VI is not teaching anymore. I'd want my money back and compensation for wasted time, had I been unfortunate enough to have them as a lecturer.

@WeeBisom

Veronica still hasn’t explained why, if sex doesn’t matter and the overlap between males and females is so large, the female division should just be scrapped altogether and we just have one open category where men and women compete against each other. If the argument is there is no meaningful distinction between male and female athletes then the correct conclusion is not “so therefore transwomen should be allowed in women’s sport.” The correct conclusion is “we should get rid of sex segregation in sport altogether.”

So true!

I well and truly don’t understand why the people who don’t think it’s fair for TW to compete in female sports categories can’t extrapolate that into all the other areas that are compromised by the TWAW approach. If it’s not fair in sport then why is it fair in single sex spaces that exist to safeguard women or bursaries designed to support women etc? It’s such a huge failure of logic that I can’t understand it.

"queerness for me is just as much political as it is personal"

Very telling.

iirc, Veronica Ivy (when R McK) argues that it's a breach of human rights for sports bodies to advocate that any adjustment to levels is necessary.

FWIW I agree with them (a stopped clock, and all that). It is a breach of human rights to require a person to perform body modification in order to access something. But it's an even greater breach of women's human rights to appropriate their rights, spaces and opportunities.

At the end she says "do they really think that this is fair? I just don't believe it."

This is the crux of the matter for me.

It will likely get me banned. Again . But I genuinely think these men are not good people. Anyone with a conscience would not do this to women. They clearly have no moral compass.

I hope that international sports takes the easy route

blood sample chromosome tested
on the spot

Y chromosome women's competition

simple

Oh and for the two clearly male athletes in this documentary who think it's unfair to be seen as women in every aspect except sport: you're right. That's why more people need to open there eyes and stop ceding more and more ground to them.

You are men in every regard. Not merely in sport.

Hope that clears things up.

Also- the scrolling text makes my blood boil.

So very clear women are not allowed to say no. Major league gaslighting.

RM/VI says that it was her short hair that made people say she didn't look like a woman on the podium. Um, ok then.

It wasn't the short hair that made RM/VI look like a man....

Yes because women with short hair look just like men.....

Yup, buzzcuts make women look like men,
every time

That was very cleverly done.

Let RMK and Jaycee speak their own words, make their own case. All while showing them moving around in the world amongst women. No words need be said. Everyone sees it.

The women said less but what they said was powerful. Not much needed to be said. It was obvious.

Russia is shit stirring no doubt about it but talk about making it easy for them! They didn't have to twist a thing. All they had to do was hold up a mirror. They must be laughing themselves silly in the Kremlin. Trump goes and Biden immediately mandates belief in TWAW. You couldn't make it up. America seems determined to set its own hair on fire.

@PermanentTemporary

Daisies, I believe that Dr McK didn't get much coaching in track cycling while living as a man, because Dr McK only took up track cycling a very short time before suddenly becoming Masters' women's world champion. What an incredible new talent in women's cycling Dr McK turned out to be.

Well as you say amazing new talent, so late in life and quickly winning against women who have been training since childhood, incredible is the word...

I did wonder though, if there is anything that Dr Mck could have done to access that top notch male coaching which is denied to women.

I also noticed that Dr McK mentioned that it is transwomen who are questioned in women’s sport and that transmen don’t get any of that sort of criticism in men’s sport, due to their privilege I guess, can’t think of any other reason.

Yes, weird that transmen never seem to beat men at weight lifting?

It's like there are biological differences which may give an advantage in sport:

Gabbi Tuft (retired wrestler) 1.96m- 1 in 296 males are taller and 1 in 1073000 females are taller.
Elliott page 153cm - 1 in 987 males are shorter, 1 in 10 females are shorter

It's so obvious. Sports are segregated on sex, not gender identity, because that's fair. Why on earth would they be separated on 'identity'?

It's the transmen I feel for. Transwomen can compete against other males. Transmen would have an unfair advantage against other females because of the hormones they take, but they're unlikely to be competitive against males. They're in a difficult place.

This will be resolved eventually. The issue is by the time its resolved many women and girls will have missed out on the opportunity to train and womens sports will have lost a number of decades.

I see this taking a decade to come to a head. By which point we have lost 2 decades of top level training for girls, and will require another decade or 2 to bridge the gap.

Shame on the IOC and governments which allow this.

See you in 2060

You know why the focus is on transwomen in sport, don't you Veronica. It's patently obvious watching this.

I did notice that RT chose the answers well. And yes, the women were very clear.

To me it parallels the quotes from that video that was posted the other day with Joppe the transgirl. Making the statement about how maybe some younger girls have a problem with them in their toilets, ‘but what can they do? Nothing!’

These are own goals for showing the attitudes that are there on display. The sense of entitlement.

What is strange is that male socialisation or certain personality types just cannot see what is clear once you start seeing the pattern. So they don’t seem to notice it watching it.

This testosterone level thing is such a furphy. Female weightlifters and powerlifters who take PEDs get very strong, but even the strongest don’t out lift the strongest men.

Anecdotal example. I had a male friend who was basically my age and height. So below average height for a man, even though I’m above average height for a woman.

He discovered that he had really, really low testosterone levels and needed to supplement them. Even before the supplements he was way stronger than I am. His strength advantage didn't disappear with his testosterone - because he still had all the other advantages of a male body.

Perhaps a young boy who starts on puberty blockers prior to puberty and goes straight on to female sex hormones might not have all those advantages, although they’d still have some.

I’d suspect though, that such a boy would have a range of health issues, physical, mental and neurological, which would preclude them from sport at any advanced level.

"I identify as queer so my sexuality is whatever I say it is whenever I say it is. It's different in sport though because I have to declare it"
I highly doubt you have to declare your sexuality. You have to declare your sex though. Convenient that you chose to stick as "woman" for that, isn't it?

"It's a human right to compete in sport"
I did a double take and had to look this up. It is not a human right.

"Assaults on women in women's spaces by people identifying as trans just don't happen"
Yes, they do.

Honestly, I'd laugh if it wasn't so utterly disrespectful to women.

I work on the basis that women just aren't actual real people to them. They're just supporting actors in their on going story of meeeeeeeeee

and yes no one has to declare their sexuality to compete ffs just their sex