Jolene, and other anti-feminist anthems

[StealthPolarBear]

Just to say this is a light-hearted chat thread.
I love jolene, sing it with a minor adaptation every time I'm cleaning the windows. I have no idea about the background, but it must come near the top of the least feminist songs ever!
Another which I've just heard is sheryl crow, strong enough. "lie to me, I promise I'll believe, lie to me, but please don't leave"
Brilliant song, awful lyrics :)
Any others?

Thought of another one! There was a UK girl group a few years back called Stooshe, they didn’t last for long but they made a track called “Black Heart” that stuck with me. It just felt like a glorification of an abusive relationship.

I don't like it when you break me honey
Why'd you have to do that?
Tell me when you'll make these tears keep falling
Do you feel like a man?
Figure, figure there's no working you out whatsoever
Only one way I can sum you up altogether
You got a black heart
Daddy I've fallen for a monster
Somehow he's scaring me to death
He's big and bad
I love him like mad
Momma, he's the best I ever had
Daddy I've fallen for a monster
He got a black heart
No walls to build around me honey
'Cause you blew my house down
Sticks and stones won't put it back up for me
And that's where we're at now
Sicker, sicker, I ain't feeling your mouth whatsoever
Naming hurts me more than weight thrown around but whatever
You got a black heart
Daddy I've fallen for a monster
Somehow he's scaring me to death
He's big and bad
I love him like mad
Momma, he's the best I ever had
Daddy I've fallen for a monster
He got a black heart
Daddy I've fallen for a monster
Somehow he's scaring me to death
He's big and bad
I love him like mad
Momma, he's the best I ever had
Daddy I've fallen for a monster
He got a black heart
He got a black heart
He got such a dirty black heart in him
I love him like mad
Oh, yes I do
He got a black heart

@PraiseTheSunshine

Barbie girl by Aqua - "I'm a Barbie girl, in the barbie world. Life in plastic, it's fantastic, you can brush my hair, undress me everywhere. Imagination, life is your creation.... I'm a blonde bimbo girl in a fantasy world dress me up, make it tight, I'm your dolly"

Barbour Girl is satirical!

Pemberleys that is exactly the point of this thread, :o

Angel of the morning

Just touch my cheek before you leave me, baby
^Just call me angel of the morning, angel
Then slowly turn away from me^

Was going to mention that one. The other Chip Taylor classic is Anyway that you Want Me

Anyway that you want me
Anyway that you'll take me
Anyway that you'll make me be part of you
Anyway that I know

Although one was also covered by Reg Presley and The Troggs.

"Roxanne

You don't have to put on the red light
Those days are over
You don't have to sell your body to the night
Roxanne
You don't have to wear that dress tonight
Walk the streets for money
You don't care if it's wrong or if it's right"

Is it anti-feminist to tell someone there are other options than prostitution?

Is angel of the morning about romantic love

Baby It’s Cold Outside comes up every Christmas - it sounds pretty bad nowadays but apparently in the original 1940s context it’s about a woman who very much wants to stay over with her man worried her reputation will be ruined if she does.

I hate the old Fern Kinney song:
“He walked into my life
And now he’s taking over.
I think it’s beautiful”
Bleurgh. Surrendered wife, much?

Perhaps this one doesn't quite fit the brief, but I Want You (Elvis Costello) is pretty disturbing.

Ive always assumed the point of roxanne is I'm here to rescue you. Now you can have sex with me.
But mostly I think, what a brilliant name for a girl.

She wants to stay but needs to be given an excuse because of how the rest of society will judge it.

Nice idea but the line “Say, what’s in this drink?” kills this reading for me.

@RedDogsBeg

I love a bit of Led Zeppelin 'Whole Lotta Love', but no you are not going to be my back door man even if you are Robert Plant!

I like Led Zep too, but what they got up to makes the songs look squeaky, the bunch of arseholes.

Second more than a woman. The lyrics are revolting. Nothing anti feminist about Jolene (Jolene Joleeeeeene) though!

But maybe we're meant to sympathise with the speaker, whilst also seeing it as a lesson: do you want to be that woman? Equally, jolene isn't attacked. In fact, is there even any suggestion that jolene IS going to take her man? Or is the speaker terrified her smitten man is going to go after Jolene? Maybe Jolene's sick and tired of the townsmen lusting after her and the wives hatin' on her down at the 7/11.

Many of the songs I loved as a teenager
"Woman in Love " Three degrees.
"Substitute" by Clout
"Will you still love me tomorrow?" Carol King
"I want you" Elvis Costello

"I love Dolly Parton and think is an absolute master of storytelling, and I’m going to disagree with Jolene being ‘anti-feminist’ as the protagonist of the song is appealing to the other women, and taking the man in the relationship out of the decision process, then it could be argued that it is actually a feminist song - the women will decide the future of the relationship.

Just a different take.

I agree- that's how I've always read it."

No, no, no. The argument that the man has no agency is nothing new is it? It's the typical sexist argument over the centuries, that if a woman 'bewitches' a man then he obviously can't say no, because a man can never say no to sex so men's sexual behaviour is women's responsibility.
It's a catchy song and DP is great, but don't try to pretend it's not extremely sexist.

There's an Ariana Grande song that examples female to female aggression & competitiveness that I find a bit brutal ...

Break up with your girlfriend ...

You got me some type of way
Ain't used to feelin' this way
I do not know what to say (Yeah, yeah)
But I know I shouldn't think about it

Took one fuckin' look at your face
Now I wanna know how you taste
Usually don't give it away (Yeah, yeah)
But you know I'm out here thinkin' 'bout it

Then I realize she's right there
And I'm at home like, "Damn, this ain't fair"

Break up with your girlfriend
Yeah, yeah, 'cause I'm bored
You could hit it in the mornin'
Yeah, yeah, like it's yours
I know it ain't right
But I don't care
Break up with your girlfriend
Yeah, yeah, 'cause I'm bored

... I suppose in a way it's a good song, because it does deal with emotions that many of us may have felt or been the unlucky recipient of, probably, as women ... but it puts it out there with no apology.

I've just re-listened to More than Words and don't get what's wrong with it at all. I definitely didn't hear anything rapey.

Agree. As I say the worst bit for me is that her happiness depends on whether jolene steals him or not. Independently of all the other stuff that's awful.

Also, another thing I like about Jolene, is that rather than the utterly unsisterly 'don't you wish your girlfriend was hot like me' vibe (:O=), the speaker in Jolene ardently admires, and respects, the force that is Jolene.

@Blibbyblobby

I guess most people don't listen to music to teach them what it's socially acceptable for women, or anyone else, to think.

Unfortunately, the cumulative effect of the lyrics we listen to is part of what tells them, and society in general, what it's socially acceptable for women, or anyone else, to think. That is exactly what sets the society's culture, and just because someone isn't intending to be socialised doesn't stop it happening.

On the theme of the thread:

Take another little piece of my heart.

Love the song but OMG such a hymn to immolating your self worth to support your man's fragile ego!

I think there is some truth to that, OTOH I also think a lot of it comes down to very basic, raw emotions around sex and love, by which I mean, romantic/sexual love. People don't feel willing to throw all good sense and caution to the side, or make extreme gestures, because society tells them to, teenagers don't freak out when separated from the objects of their affection because people tell them to. People don't feel like there is some sort of imperative of universal justice that if they love someone enough, or make them realise how they feel, they will be loved back, because someone tells them to. They are almost universal types of emotions.

Pretty much every society ever has seen those things as potentially seriously socially disruptive and leading to all kinds of bad outcomes, and tried to put a lid on them in some way. Maybe ours less than a lot of others, though. In some ways we're overly romantic about them - where most cultures know young people (and sometimes older ones) have these kinds of feelings, and they might be expressed in art, they don't tend to see them as so positive or anything to build a long term relationship on.

The song with the weirdest lyrics that we danced to at middle school discos (so equivalent to years 5 to 8) in the 1980s was about and from the viewpoint of a man realising the beautiful girl he had a crush on at school is a "Centerfold" - the J Geils Band.

@dotdashdashdash

Babybirds "you're gorgeous" always seemed distasteful to me

It's definitely about an exploitative relationship, but is being sung by a man, seemingly from his own perspective...

@PlumpAndDeliciousFatcat

She wants to stay but needs to be given an excuse because of how the rest of society will judge it.

Nice idea but the line “Say, what’s in this drink?” kills this reading for me.

Even that has context - apparently people used to say that as a joke because it was harder to get alcohol then and there was literally nothing in the drink - that was the joke. I’m trying to find the link to the article about it but I can’t! But I absolutely agree it sounds very bad now.

Is it anti-feminist to tell someone there are other options than prostitution?

No, it's only problematic if he's then going to follow her around saying that she belongs to him and his poor heart aches with every breath she takes, smile she fakes etc.