Puberty Blockers - impact on the brain

[Triffiddealer]

Hi all

I'm well aware about the arguments about lack of evidence re. long term effects of PB on physical health / infertility etc, however I never see any discussion of how they may impact brain development.

Part of my PhD was looking at issues affecting specific teenagers and I found the research on cognitive development during puberty really interesting (Sarah Jayne Blakemore has published a lot and there is a TED talk here www.ted.com/talks/sarah_jayne_blakemore_the_mysterious_workings_of_the_adolescent_brain)

Have any cognitive neuroscientists or biologists studied this - are there implications for cognitive development / ability? I would assume that the PBs also inhibit cognitive development related to puberty, but is this true or does it only impact physical development?

@Helleofabore

But it's OK to say that trans people are creepy for mentioning what estrogen does to your fat distribution?

It is the way this was said. 'Full bottoms' is a phrase that I have never in my decades come across being used by females. I have seen it used by males discussing females.

Exactly. Also, we were discussing "Puberty Blockers - impact on the brain". Until someone started going on about boobs and full bottoms. Is it that the impact on the brain is secondary in importance to the impact on the azz?

Is it that the impact on the brain is secondary in importance to the impact on the azz?

This is also a very valid point.

We have been told previously that negative health impacts are not as important as immediate positive mental health by this pp. I think we can draw our conclusions from that.

Oh. And the complete ignoring of the higher risk to female’s mid to long term health compared to male’s. That needs to also be repeatedly pointed out because all posts at the moment seem to be about male transitioners.

We do need to keep the focus on female’s, I feel. It is further evidence of their health impacts being ignored for the sake of males.

We’re both repeating ourselves here, but I’m happy to play this as long as you are: taking cross sex hormones does not induce puberty, because puberty is the process by which children develop into sexual maturity. Also, it is not “delayed”, it is cancelled. It doesn’t happen. The child remains in many ways, a child

@Sophoclesthefox

Indeed it isn't, but delaying it with puberty blockers, and inducing it with hormones are both options open to trans kids

We’re both repeating ourselves here, but I’m happy to play this as long as you are: taking cross sex hormones does not induce puberty, because puberty is the process by which children develop into sexual maturity. Also, it is not “delayed”, it is cancelled. It doesn’t happen. The child remains in many ways, a child. The critical development of puberty never happens. We have little idea at the moment of what the long term effects of that might be.

"taking cross sex hormones does not induce puberty, because puberty is the process by which children develop into sexual maturity."

It literally does. A trans girl is effectively in the same situation as a hypogonadal cis girl, or a cis girl with severely delayed puberty. In all cases, puberty is induced with the appropriate hormone regime.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15506074/

www.chop.edu/conditions-diseases/hypogonadism

It literally does.

It literally doesn't 😊

Outright lies. 100% false. Which is what you’d expect from someone who thinks one of the intended outcomes of female puberty is a “full bottom”. Repeating a lie doesn’t make it true.

@NotBadConsidering

Outright lies. 100% false. Which is what you’d expect from someone who thinks one of the intended outcomes of female puberty is a “full bottom”. Repeating a lie doesn’t make it true.

I think you'll find that an estrogen puberty does typically affect the amount of fat stored in the buttocks. Surprised you don't know this.

www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/156451#female-puberty

@Datun

It literally does.

It literally doesn't 😊

Great argument.

A trans girl is effectively in the same situation as a hypogonadal cis girl, or a cis girl with severely delayed puberty.

Nonsense. No amount of hormone therapy will give a male child a mature female reproductive system. From the earliest days in the womb, an embryo with the SRY gene (almost always found on the Y chromosome) is on a pathway to develop as male, not female. His body is structured to respond to testosterone in a way that female bodies won't. That will never change, because his chromosomes and genes will never change.

I think you'll find that an estrogen puberty does typically affect the amount of fat stored in the buttocks. Surprised you don't know this.

I think you’ll find the intention of female puberty is sexual and reproductive maturity to enable that female to be able to have sex and carry a child. That oestrogen may affect fat distribution along side that does not mean that it is a sign of female puberty, nor is it an indication that a male who has their fat distribution altered by artificially administered oestrogen a sign they have actually gone through female puberty.

Surprised you don’t know this not surprised at all .

What happens to a male who goes through puberty- not “male” puberty, because the male is redundant here - then as an adult, takes oestrogen and has their fat distribution altered to give them a “full” bottom (still waiting for clarification of what “full” actually means)? Are you claiming they’ve gone through a second puberty? Please do, such a claim would only highlight to those lurkers reading the thread how bonkers claims can get.

Why is there no research specifically on trans health rather than trying to shoehorn existing research into proving that current treatment protocols are correct?

In never ceases to baffle me as to why any genuine research is stopped on the basis of "transphobia" if I felt I was trans I hope I would be demanding researched and safe treatment options, not just random treatments justified by unrelated medical conditions.

*Shizuku

Datun
It literally does.

It literally doesn't 😊

"Great argument."

IKR? But at least it's a hundred percent more accurate than claiming males go through female puberty.

We’re both repeating ourselves here, but I’m happy to play this as long as you are: taking cross sex hormones does not induce puberty, because puberty is the process by which children develop into sexual maturity. Also, it is not “delayed”, it is cancelled. It doesn’t happen. The child remains in many ways, a child

Yes. Quite.

still waiting for clarification of what “full” actually means

Well. When I saw this phrase full bottom, I remembered toddlers describing the need to defecate as ‘I have a full bottom’.

My nana used to say you can't argue with stupid

Just wanted to say thanks to those posters who calmly and tirelessly respond; checking the "ooh science!" links, and refusing to let outright wrong assertions stand. There are lurkers who are learning.

It is very revealing when the mask slips. "Boobs and full bottoms" indeed.

I think you'll find that an estrogen puberty does typically affect the amount of fat stored in the buttocks. Surprised you don't know this.

So my friend with a really skinny bum (but wide hips) is less of a woman than me? She has a female pelvis that is specifically designed to pass a large head sized object through (three in fact), with a handy ligament feature at the front which softens to allow some expansion for birth. Male people don't have the ligament softening superpower that makes ladies ankles go a bit weak and wobbly during pregnancy, hence we are advised not to wear high heels.

I didn't put on any excess weight at puberty but my hips suddenly got wider - that was a shock! Shiz - it isn't putting on a bit of fat that is a signifier of female puberty - it is the entire development of the female skeleton in a way that is different to the male skeleton. That cannot be induced with cross-sex hormones - we are a lot more complicated than that.

Female Pelvis Adjusts for Child-Bearing Years.
A team of researchers led by Marcia Ponce de León at the Anthropological Institute of the University of Zurich has gained new insights. Using computed tomographic data, they tracked pelvic development from birth to old age and found that until puberty, male and female pelves are similar in width. With the onset of puberty, the male pelvis remains on the same developmental trajectory, while the female pelvis develops in an entirely new direction, becoming wider and reaching its full width around the age of 25-30 years. From the age of 40 onward, the female pelvis then begins to narrow again.

A male pelvis is shaped quite differently for obvious reasons. Note below that the differences are so pronounced that is seen to be the most reliable factor for determining sex in a skeleton.

The female sacrum is wider, shorter, and less curved, and the sacral promontory projects less into the pelvic cavity, thus giving the female pelvic inlet (pelvic brim) a more rounded or oval shape compared to males. The lesser pelvic cavity of females is also wider and more shallow than the narrower, deeper, and tapering lesser pelvis of males. Because of the obvious differences between female and male hip bones, this is the one bone of the body that allows for the most accurate sex determination.

vivadifferences.com/male-vs-female-pelvis/

Are we back to discussing brains yet or is Shizuku still gazing at bottoms?

Because of the obvious differences between female and male hip bones, this is the one bone of the body that allows for the most accurate sex determination.

There's near on 20 years worth of Timeteam episodes that are going to have to be edited due to this shocking transphobia.

@Beowulfa

Because of the obvious differences between female and male hip bones, this is the one bone of the body that allows for the most accurate sex determination.

There's near on 20 years worth of Timeteam episodes that are going to have to be edited due to this shocking transphobia.

!!

I find threads like this interesting because I end up finding out more amazing things about the female body like:

But why does the female pelvis contract again with the onset of menopause? The researchers assume that a narrow pelvis is better suited to stabilizing the pelvic floor and thus to withstanding the high pressures that are generated in the abdomen during bipedal walking. As such, men and women become more similar from the age of 40 -- at least as far as their pelves are concerned.

I had no idea that happened but it sounds quite cool. Women's pelvises rock!!

Are we back to comparing transwomen to women with significant health conditions?

You know that transwomen are NOT women with significant health conditions and if a doctor treated them as a female, it may mean they will end up as males with significant health conditions brought on by misdiagnosis.

This is what happens when you continue with the misconception that people can change sex. No. That can’t. They can only emulate the other sex via hormones and surgery.

Do keep on though. Every time you post something like this, readers get the full picture. Like all puberty is for girls is ‘boobs’ and ‘full bottoms’. Like posting a video that contained the quote from a teenaged male about younger girls being powerless to do anything about a male in their toilet or changing room. ‘What could they do? Nothing!’.

Boobs do seem important. Eddie Izzard professes 'boob envy'.

It literally does. A trans girl is effectively in the same situation as a hypogonadal cis girl, or a cis girl with severely delayed puberty. In all cases, puberty is induced with the appropriate hormone regime.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15506074/

www.chop.edu/conditions-diseases/hypogonadism

I know this is going to make everyone make their most surprised face, but the Information in the links provided doesn’t say anything at all about children taking cross sex hormones to induce puberty.

They both look at the reasons a child may not experience the hormonal changes that lead to sexual maturation, and what can be done to treat it, but both are absolutely silent on whether it’s possible to induce the puberty of the opposite sex of the body in question.

No idea why shiz thinks they would back up their position. They don’t.

You’re doing a bang up job of proving what a dearth of scientific back up there is for giving children puberty blockers and cross sex hormones, shizuku. Thank you for your work here have a fab weekend.

Thank you for your work here

It is amazing. Either Shiz (a) has an unnatural talent for consistently finding things that appear potentially supportive of their argument but miss the mark, while somehow missing all the good studies, or (b) the good studies just don't exist.

I feel like I shouldn't say this, and spoil it, but...

It's possible Shiz is a GC plant/false-flag - if I wanted to make the evidence base look flakey, I would sign up to Mumsnet and start throwing up chaff like that.

And then start talking about full bottoms just for anyone not paying attention.

I feel like I should go up and pull the mask off Scooby-Doo style and we can all gasp in shock as it's revealed which long-lost FWR poster it really is.