Puberty Blockers - impact on the brain

[Triffiddealer]

Hi all

I'm well aware about the arguments about lack of evidence re. long term effects of PB on physical health / infertility etc, however I never see any discussion of how they may impact brain development.

Part of my PhD was looking at issues affecting specific teenagers and I found the research on cognitive development during puberty really interesting (Sarah Jayne Blakemore has published a lot and there is a TED talk here www.ted.com/talks/sarah_jayne_blakemore_the_mysterious_workings_of_the_adolescent_brain)

Have any cognitive neuroscientists or biologists studied this - are there implications for cognitive development / ability? I would assume that the PBs also inhibit cognitive development related to puberty, but is this true or does it only impact physical development?

Yeah. The focus on genitals and boobs and bums isn’t coming from those fighting to retain women’s and children’s rights and safeguarding. .....,

How is a trans girl old enough to decide to go through a testosterone puberty that will give her a broken voice, beard and masculine body shape and stature? Given that these are things that will likely cause her lifelong dysphoria, and that may need extensive surgery even to partially correct.

Children don't need surgery to 'correct' them turning into adults. Don't be silly.

I’ve always found it depressing that the adult transwomen who have and still do enjoy the benefits of what male puberty brings aren’t helping protect children from missing out on that. Why aren’t they advocating that these children can be happy with their bodies? Their silence is....interesting.

Wasn't there some research that concluded puberty blockers led to a drop in IQ? www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5694455/

Thanks, slug, yes, that would be the human study I've seen referenced. Not super conclusive though - exactly one subject. But it is consistent with wider Hough et al sheep trial.

A Global IQ reduction is observed. At the end of 28 months of treatment, speed processing and memory remain lower than before GnRHa treatment.

My deleted comment was suggesting there are many instances of non-puberty-blocked (or even non-cross-sex-hormone) trans people who seem quite happy adults. Whereas I'm not seeing lots of happy puberty-blocked youth blossoming into adulthood yet. Are we sure this is working?

(No names this time)

You'd hope any significant treatment would have clear benefits to the untrained eye, and that the trials would be just making sure it wasn't confirmation bias or a placebo effect.

But instead it feels like we're struggling to find statistical evidence of a benefit that we can't see.

But the salesmen assure us it's a miracle tonic for this condition that almost no children were suffering from 20 years ago.

How much research is available in Denmark?

Thanks for the clarification Nec. V important point to make, that this is experimental.

And the follow ups are vanishingly rare.

@Wrongsideofhistorymyarse

I'm a bit creeped out at Shixuku's repeated mentions of 'transgirls' full bottoms'.

Of course you are - any one pro-trans is suspected of being some sort of pervert on this site.

[quote Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]@Shizuku, what you say makes no sense. You might as well say how does a child give consent to be born. Puberty is not optional. It's not something we decide whether we want to go through. It's a natural and essential part of the human life cycle.

Add me to the list of those who find your weird comments about full or fat bottoms really inappropriate and creepy.[/quote]
"Puberty is not optional."

Indeed it isn't, but delaying it with puberty blockers, and inducing it with hormones are both options open to trans kids. And that of course means that a trans girls effectively has the choice to go though a testosterone puberty or not, so the question remains - why is she too young to choose one option, but not too young to choose the other?

"Add me to the list of those who find your weird comments about full or fat bottoms really inappropriate and creepy."

That's OK - I have also added myself to the list of people who find your assumption that pro trans people are perverts really inappropriate and creepy.

Says person posting on a site completely obsessed with trans girl's penises. Hilarious.

Given the recent quite appalling instances of male violence towards women and girls, finding women's concerns over access granted to men 'hilarious' says a lot.

Well said Datun, hear hear
I find Shizuku's comments shocking and offensive in equal measure.

@Datun

Says person posting on a site completely obsessed with trans girl's penises. Hilarious.

Given the recent quite appalling instances of male violence towards women and girls, finding women's concerns over access granted to men 'hilarious' says a lot.

Trans girls aren't men.

Trans girls aren't men.

Trans girls are children. You are accusing women of being obsessed with genitals of children!

Women are not obsessed with genitals. They are concerned with the behaviour attached to the owners of those genitals.

You trying to make it into some kind of weird obsession with genitalia, is not going to stop women talking about violence committed by those born male.

You trying to make it into some kind of weird obsession with genitalia, is not going to stop women talking about violence committed by those born male.

It's a DARVO. Gaslighting that GC women are perverted for caring about single sex spaces.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

You trying to make it into some kind of weird obsession with genitalia, is not going to stop women talking about violence committed by those born male.

It's a DARVO. Gaslighting that GC women are perverted for caring about single sex spaces.

But it's OK to say that trans people are creepy for mentioning what estrogen does to your fat distribution?

It's a DARVO. Gaslighting that GC women are perverted for caring about single sex spaces.

Exactly. Identifying the cohort that women are at risk from, and wanting to exclude them where women are vulnerable, its perfectly normal, legal, and commonplace.

Pretending there is a different motivation other than the safety and dignity of women and girls is just more Twitter dancing nonsense.

Pretending there is a different motivation other than the safety and dignity of women and girls is just more Twitter dancing nonsense.

Indeed. I wonder if there is a big book of disingenuous deflections. Like a Dummies Guide to gender identity politics activism.

You must be new to GC "feminism" - it's focused mostly on penises, including children's penises.

No. I think you are wildly mistaken. GC Feminism is focused on the progress of females (whatever gender they identify as) to continue to fight the result of millennia of sexist discrimination experienced by those with a female sexed body. This includes safeguarding, employment, sports, education, representation and most importantly, health. All females, and only females.

And to be clear, I will repeat what a female is.

A female is someone who has a body that has formed around the production of large gametes, whether that female has, is capable of, is currently or will in the future produced those large gametes. A female does not and will never have the body that has formed around the production of small gametes, whether that body has, is capable of, is currently or will in the future produced those small gametes. That is the body type of a male regardless of what gender they identify.

We may talk about reproduction and capability, but I rarely see the word penis being used on this board unless it is relevant. I hate to say it, but it is rarely relevant. Although, there are some posters who seem focused on that body part. They don't seem to be feminists though.

You must be new to GC "feminism" - it's focused mostly on penises, including children's penises.

Shizuku

You know that you saying this to women who are mostly feminists, on a forum largely populated by females, called mumsnet?

Who do you think you are talking to? Who do you think is listening?

Do you genuinely think that anyone will read that and go, yes that's right, how awful!

Or do you understand that absolutely everyone who reads that is going to be a normal adult person?

No wonder they call Twitter a cesspit. Although, to be honest, it comes across more like a sandpit.

But it's OK to say that trans people are creepy for mentioning what estrogen does to your fat distribution?

It is the way this was said. 'Full bottoms' is a phrase that I have never in my decades come across being used by females. I have seen it used by males discussing females.

Indeed it isn't, but delaying it with puberty blockers, and inducing it with hormones are both options open to trans kids

We’re both repeating ourselves here, but I’m happy to play this as long as you are: taking cross sex hormones does not induce puberty, because puberty is the process by which children develop into sexual maturity. Also, it is not “delayed”, it is cancelled. It doesn’t happen. The child remains in many ways, a child. The critical development of puberty never happens. We have little idea at the moment of what the long term effects of that might be.