How can feminism in the UK be more inclusive? Striving for equality for all women

[isequalityamyth]

I have spent 40 plus years pushing, fighting, scrapping at times for equality, fair pay, calling out sexism, even the every day minor crap...if you call me girl I’ll call you kid all day long (apparently that is really annoying). & no I’m not sitting on your lap or taking a ride in your "fuck mobile".

The reality is though that I’ve been fighting from a very white privileged middle class standpoint. I had the privilege of having a feminist father who encouraged my education, encouraged my promotion.

When I went for entry jobs post graduating I was met with a phew by the male interviewers. My name and hobbies are not necessarily reflective of how I look. I got told once in an interview they were relieved I wasn’t a heffer, I looked and sounded english (seriously yes this was stated). This was the normal.

Yes I’ve fought my way up through the glass ceiling, but I was given a ladder.

I'm not demeaning my own battle nor those of others, I am just conscious that I had help, I had a tool set, I had support, I had the right skin colour, I had privilege.

How does one take a different perspective, not all women are the same, we all have different experiences. We are not starting from the same position, as a white Middle class woman I definitely had a head start in the equality stakes.

So my long winded question - how do we make feminism more inclusive? Not so white MC centric. As surely feminism needs to be more inclusive and it doesn't feel that way right now.

@NiceGerbil

@isequalityamyth - just from my personal experience a lot of people exclude themselves from feminism, they've been ingrained by our society to think it's selfish or unattractive, or some other bs, for women to centre their own concerns.

Other people, like I said, are looking to cement divisions they've deliberately created.

There's also the media.

The stories they choose. The voices they amplify. And of course a lot of the media is not keen on feminists.

So that's a big problem.

Quite a few of these posts smack of "ok, yes there are problems you experience as women subject to racism, but sorry, we will get to you later, we're rather busy now".

Which is shit because BAME women are the people who are MOST affected by the patriarchy. We Can't make things better for "all women" and then get round to how racism affects this. Because BAME women are PART of all women. And the ones experiencing inequality the worst.

While so many GC feminists on here are obsessed by trans issues, it smacks of huge privilege that they are not having to worry about the number of maternal deaths in pregnancy/childbirth, or the heavy handed behaviour of the police and their refusal to investigate their missing girls. This has been happening for YEARS to black women, and in light of recent events, feminists are only now getting cross about it.

Where was the anger against police brutality when it was black women on the receiving end? It's almost as if some white, MC feminists don't see black women as women. I wonder why that is?

The end game for Identity Politics is FRACTURE OF GROUPS into ineffective balkansisation and inter fighting. Being a woman is NOT a priviledged position on this planet full stop. Dont bother clapping back at me this place is becoming far to third wave for me I'm out and i say that as someone who has several instances of 'intersection' 👏👏👏👏👏
Whole post is 🔥🔥🔥🔥

I wanted to have a conversation about how to make feminism more inclusive. I failed miserably. I got some good suggestions, but by and large it's been more "it's already inclusive what are you talking about".

I had zero intentions of being patronising, and I apologise if I came across as that way. That truly wasn't the intention.

There are loads of posters on here now because of the trans stuff.

Some are
Not feminists
Not from the UK so that can be confusing
That sort of stuff

The posters on here have many different views and yes for many it's a single issue thing.

I totally hear what you're saying.

It's almost as if some white, MC feminists don't see black women as women. I wonder why that is?

Since you've invented that disgusting question you'll just have to answer it yourself.

Agree with ImpatiensI.

Since you've invented that disgusting question you'll just have to answer it yourself

Well, if you go and look on the black mumsnetters section you will find a thread that does in fact make all the points I have raised. It is how many black women feel.

I agree racism is disgusting! That means you aren't one of the problems then, aren't you? Love it how (as normal) any hint of identifying racism is seen as MORE disgusting THAN racism.

[quote isequalityamyth]@TheRabbitOfCaerbannog the "feminism" I'm seeing, so that does not mean all, just perhaps the more vocal - appears to be very white middle class biased. [/quote]
I appreciate the intent behind your post, but I think you haven't been paying attention. A lot of the most heartening, energising things that have happened to feminism in recent years - including things like Million Women Rise, or the defence of single-sex spaces, or the pushback against the homophobia and sexism of gender ideology, have included, and have frequently been initiated and led by, Black and Brown women, and/or disabled women, and/or lesbian and bi women. Class analysis is a bit further behind, but we are getting there.

Women = adult human female.

You think that some women don't think black women are human? Or female?

Don't direct us elsewhere. Racism is endemic but to state that white women in the UK see black women as not human is pretty strong.

I donate to charities in the UK and overseas. I got follow the news of how women fare around the world.

Take examples. The Uighar women being systematically raped in China. The use of rape as a weapon of war in DRC. FGM here in the UK.

You asset that women (which women) don't see these women and girls as human?

I think you need some more substance to your claim tbh.

I can't talk about that thread because it's against the rules but it's everything that's wrong.

Your claim that some feminists don't see black women as women is the same stuff, designed to be as vicious and divisive as possible. I totally reject it.

@ArcheryAnnie I agree in some ways. But already on this thread people are dismissing that some black women feel that some types of feminism, including that on the FWR boards, isn't for them.

We have posters on this thread simultaneously saying "we are intersectional what's the problem" whilst others say "sorry, we haven't time to be intersectional, take your oppression elsewhere please".

Surely if we want feminism to be inclusive, at least on mumsnet, the least we could do is actually believe the lived experiences of black and other BAME posters who DO say they feel "othered"?

We don't want a man telling us what's sexist. What makes a largely white, MC group of women think they can say whether or not the boards here are racist? That's for the BAME mumsnetters to say. And they ARE saying it. But are shouted down with demands for "proof". It seems "we believe you" only extends to sexual assault, not racism.

Who has historically and still often not seen women as full people. As lesser.

Who has oppressed us all these millennia?

That's right. Men. Focus your anger where it belongs and do something about it.

'We have posters on this thread simultaneously saying "we are intersectional what's the problem" whilst others say "sorry, we haven't time to be intersectional, take your oppression elsewhere please".'

Some posters say this and some posters say something else shocker

@impatiens and @ImpatiensI

Fair enough, don't believe their claims and feelings. That's up to you. I believe those posters who have made such claims.

Please see my post above: I guess as long as YOU don't see it, that's all that matters eh?

While so many GC feminists on here are obsessed by trans issues, it smacks of huge privilege that they are not having to worry about the number of maternal deaths in pregnancy/childbirth, or the heavy handed behaviour of the police and their refusal to investigate their missing girls.

I'm sorry, SirChing, but if you think that worrying about women in DV shelters, or prisons, or in migrant housing, and working very hard to make sure they are not housed with strange men against their wishes, "smacks of huge privilege", then I don't know what to say to you.

Women with "huge privilege" don't have to be "obsessed with trans issues" because they are very unlikely to go to prison, and they are very unlikely to be put by the home office into unsafe hostels with traumatised young men, and indeed they are very unlikely to be put in a whole load of other circumstances where they are forced to share intimate space with male-bodied people, because they can simply buy their way out of it. Those of us who have no choice but to use NHS hospital beds, council swimming pools and gyms, state facilities of every kind, have no choice but to be "obsessed with trans issues" when, believe me, we'd rather do almost anything else with our time.

Mumsnet is pretty racist as a whole.

Same as society.

What's your point?

And you didn't say racist. You said not women (IE not human).

I agree in some ways. But already on this thread people are dismissing that some black women feel that some types of feminism, including that on the FWR boards, isn't for them.

That's fair enough, SirChing.

This thread may be of interest, OP. It's a work in progress, added to when people have time.

But I think these are all very feminist issues that are hardly the preserve of the middle-class white boogeywoman.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4184062-Feminist-goals-and-organisations-which-are-working-towards-them

I'm thinking of Kiera Bell right now.

I wonder if the dad was bolstered by Kiera's bravery?

[quote SirChing]**@impatiens* and @ImpatiensI*

Fair enough, don't believe their claims and feelings. That's up to you. I believe those posters who have made such claims.

Please see my post above: I guess as long as YOU don't see it, that's all that matters eh?[/quote]
You seem to be here with an agenda. I'm not interested in your agenda, in case that wasn't clear.

@ArcheryAnnie

I agree in some ways. But already on this thread people are dismissing that some black women feel that some types of feminism, including that on the FWR boards, isn't for them.

That's fair enough, SirChing.

It isn't being 'dismissed' it's being questioned.

I am mixed race and do not feel excluded by UK feminism. MN FWR is a rare breath of sanity in a society that currently seems hell bent on handing over all women's hard-won rights and protections.

Divided we fall. Our backs are against the wall. For the sake of our daughters, all of our daughters, we can't afford to be divided.

Which is shit because BAME women are the people who are MOST affected by the patriarchy.

Not wanting to get into any form of oppression top trumps but this is an incredibly insulting thing to say

Have you any idea of the lives some (white) working class women in Scotland live?

Are you happy with further marginalising and dehumanizing them in the furtherance of who knows what?
But I guess you are, as it seems the aim is (at it always has been) is to create squabbling factionalism
Because I expect your now going to tell me I'm a racist privileged mc white c*swoman?