What does CIS mean?

[Babysharkdoodoodood]

I mean really?
I was discussing (ranting) about this with DH today. Trying to explain why I'm a woman and not a cis female.

Then he come out with this beauty (not being nasty): Doesn't it just mean Cunt In Situ?

I was absolutely howling mainly because it's true

True!

The quote works for all women of the time, as now!

@BahHumbygge

I'm not ceding any language. My language will follow the exact contours of material reality or it will be bullshit.

This, with clanging bells on.

Hibari: "It facilitates the claim that cis people are privileged over trans."

A massive sweeping generalisation. Really, all the time? I'd say that proposing that all women have a prefixed attached to their sex smacks of PRIVILEGE engendered (no pun intended) through socialisation.

@MangoBiscuit

"A trans man would feel gender dysphoria even in a world without misogyny, menstrual pain and all the other things you list."

You cannot possibly know this either way. There is no environment in which this could be tested. You just believe it to be true.

Well consider this - trans men exist across the world in the most misogynistic societies and also the least misogynistic, and that's because it's a separate issue.

Also, if dysphoria was about living in a misogynistic society, why would trans girls and women even exist?

Let me assume for a moment that you are a British person living in the UK. Most people people are OK with that - they feel relaxed about being British, they don't feel like their Britishness puts them in danger - it's fine.

But now imagine being that same British person but living in Nazi Germany at the height of WW2. Now being British has all kinds of problems attached to it, in this case, instead of being a woman in a misogynistic society, you are a British person in an enemy country where you will be killed if they find you.

"Why are we TOLD we must be cis?"

It's just the word for people who are not trans. Suppose I ask you if you are trans and you reply "I'm not trans", well, "I'm cis" is exactly the same thing as "I'm not trans" but with fewer words in it.

If you asked me if I was trans, I could just say 'no', couldn't I?

if dysphoria was about living in a misogynistic society, why would trans girls and women even exist?

There are many people who declare themselves to be trans but do not experience physical dysphoria

Frankly this question indicates a certain naïveté about the reasons why some individuals declare themselves to be trans

What does 'trans' mean? That you prefer the gendering that attaches to the sex that is not the one you were considered/observed/assigned to be at birth.

So then 'cis' would mean 'I prefer and am ok with the gendering that attaches to the sex I was considered to be at birth' - which is just not true for very many people.

It’s just the word for people who are not trans

Cor blimey, can you actually hear yourself and the privilege you’re displaying?

@TheMerrickBoy

If you asked me if I was trans, I could just say 'no', couldn't I?

Yes you could

So would I

It's not just a word for not trans

It means you have a gender identity aligned with that which you feel belongs to your sex.

The opposite of trans

So you are assuming an internal gender identity

Many women , probably more than half , feel that the gender expression expected if them is inconsistent with them. You could argue that makes them all trans not cis

But most women think that's unkind and demeaning to people with severe gender dysmorphia

And the same women tend to think it's unkind an demeaning to women to expect them to buy into any gender identity if they want their rights and needs as women to be met by society

@Shizuku

"Why are we TOLD we must be cis?"

It's just the word for people who are not trans. Suppose I ask you if you are trans and you reply "I'm not trans", well, "I'm cis" is exactly the same thing as "I'm not trans" but with fewer words in it.

No this isn’t correct. To assume it is is to be deaf to everyone who has said otherwise.

Do you typically ignore a large group of people who say a word is offensive?

It's just the word for people who are not trans.

If I say I am not "cis", am I then trans? Or are women not allowed to define our own identity?

"Do you typically ignore a large group of people who say a word is offensive?"

Would you ever call a trans woman "male" or a "man" given that they have made it pretty clear they find that offensive?

What if I say I am a woman.

Which is what I will say and won’t change on.

@Shizuku

"Why are we TOLD we must be cis?"

It's just the word for people who are not trans. Suppose I ask you if you are trans and you reply "I'm not trans", well, "I'm cis" is exactly the same thing as "I'm not trans" but with fewer words in it.

If cis just means not trans, then cis people have no common characteristics other than not being trans. You can make no other generalisations about cis people, including making assumptions about privilege, advantage or any other kind of preferential position in the world.

But this is NOT how cis is used. When it is used, it comes with a whole lot of baggage including assumptions of privilege. It comes with the whole of social justice theory strapped to its back. It acquires connotations which are offensive to people who may believe strongly in social justice, but think that Social Justice Theory is basically flawed.

I'm afraid that you have mistaken dysphoria about being female for dysphoria about what happens to females.

Oh so now trans "men" are female. But a while ago (possibly on a different thread) they were male according to you? Make your mind up.

But let's revisit this shizuku. Could you please confirm which it is? And why you made a distinction between women and FTM trans people on the sole basis of the type of dysphoria? Do you think FTM trans people are biologically male or female? It sounds like you are somewhat confused.

@TheMerrickBoy

If you asked me if I was trans, I could just say 'no', couldn't I?

Indeed you could, and in that case, saying "no" has exactly the same meaning as "I'm cis".

What about if I said "could you introduce me to your trans friend" and you wanted to tell me that actually they weren't trans?

What if I said to you "I appreciate that trans women like yourself belong to an oppressed class." How would you tell me you're not trans?

What about if I said "could you introduce me to your trans friend" and you wanted to tell me that actually they weren't trans?

Er, you've answered this yourself? "Actually, my friend isn't trans."

@Ereshkigalangcleg

I'm afraid that you have mistaken dysphoria about being female for dysphoria about what happens to females.

Oh so now trans "men" are female. But a while ago (possibly on a different thread) they were male according to you? Make your mind up.

But let's revisit this shizuku. Could you please confirm which it is? And why you made a distinction between women and FTM trans people on the sole basis of the type of dysphoria? Do you think FTM trans people are biologically male or female? It sounds like you are somewhat confused.

Trans men are male, but they are perceived as female by others, usually for a significant portion of their lives.

I personally call a transwoman a transwoman in the first instance

If they start to call me names , like cis, or bully me , telling me they belong in the female spaces of sports , telling me they are woman like me ,then I will have no reason to not to call them male, remind them of the privilege they are demonstrating

The only other time I will highlight that they are male is when people get their trans men and women muddled

I dunno why I’m bothering really but

Would you ever call a trans woman "male" or a "man" given that they have made it pretty clear they find that offensive

Man or male is not a made up word, and in contexts where sex is relevant is the correct descriptor for a man who has declared himself to be trans. No woman could declare herself to be a transwoman.

Trans men are male, but they are perceived as female by others, usually for a significant portion of their lives.

Goodness, why is that? And why, as you said, do they experience "dysphoria about being female"?

@Ereshkigalangcleg

What about if I said "could you introduce me to your trans friend" and you wanted to tell me that actually they weren't trans?

Er, you've answered this yourself? "Actually, my friend isn't trans."

Right, and "Actually my friend isn't trans" means the same thing as "Actually my friend is cis".

@Ereshkigalangcleg

What about if I said "could you introduce me to your trans friend" and you wanted to tell me that actually they weren't trans?

Er, you've answered this yourself? "Actually, my friend isn't trans."

I’d say this too. I can guarantee I’d never use the cis word. Fortunately I’ve not heard it irl much either.