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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

What does CIS mean?

358 replies

Babysharkdoodoodood · 15/03/2021 23:34

I mean really?
I was discussing (ranting) about this with DH today. Trying to explain why I'm a woman and not a cis female.

Then he come out with this beauty (not being nasty): Doesn't it just mean Cunt In Situ?

I was absolutely howling Grin mainly because it's true

OP posts:
BahHumbygge · 16/03/2021 15:49

I'm not ceding any language. My language will follow the exact contours of material reality or it will be bullshit.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 16/03/2021 15:53

*Do you feel an immediate sense of distress at your conclusion that you are female? Oh yes! I often do feel a sense of distress. Job interviews, salary reviews, walking home alone. All cause an immdeiate sense of distress at my femaleness.

Does it feel like the logical conclusion? In a world/society that treat women as seconf class citizens; tramples over their wishes; bargains with their right to self define - as you did upthread? Yes. It's the onlv conclusion. My being female sets me at odds with who I feel I am and gender ideology only cements that ridiculous perception of what it is to be female, or male!

No profound feeling even from the age of 3 or 4 that something is definitely wrong with you being categorised as female? Absolutely! A profound disappointment at all the gender stereotypes the adults around me fed me and my friends. Shoving me into dresses, grwoingmy hair, washing my face, not letting me play if there was any rough and tumble, buting me a blood kids ironing board as fucking present!

That's the reason why I am gender critical in the first place. Fuck off using that against me and trying to persuade me that this is all it takes to explain being trans.

When men 'feel like women' they want that gender stereotype. Because they cannot feel like women. They quite simply do not have the biology for it! Women can't 'feel like a man' for exactly the same reason. Everybody is fighting the same bloody thing - masculine toxicity - but some pack it up nice and small and take it all with them!

If you all stopped looking at the gender boxes and yearning to be the acme of one of them maybe we could all just be who we actually are.

But that isn't the agenda is it?

So I just wasted my time posting... again!

MarshaBradyo · 16/03/2021 15:55

Haven’t rtft

But it’s meaningless when used wrt women

It’s unnecessary and also offensive to many

StellaAndCrow · 16/03/2021 15:56

Is the only way to know you have a gender identity if you are dysphoric and it doesn't "match"? Do any people that aren't dysphoric have a gender identity?
Is it something that everyone has, or is it something only some people have? Thanks.

midgedude · 16/03/2021 15:58

Stella I have read women on here who do have a gender identity and it matches their sex

sourdoughismyreligion · 16/03/2021 16:08

Do you feel an immediate sense of distress at your conclusion that you are female? Does it feel like the logical conclusion? Feel fine with it? No jarring sensation? No profound feeling even from the age of 3 or 4 that something is definitely wrong with you being categorised as female? No?

Where does that leave the growing number of transwoman who are absolutely fine with looking stereotypically masculine and experience no distress over having a penis?

SunsetBeetch · 16/03/2021 16:10

Calling transwomen men and calling women cis against their will are both banned on this board, so there's no need to strike a deal.

sourdoughismyreligion · 16/03/2021 16:10

@midgedude

Stella I have read women on here who do have a gender identity and it matches their sex
Unless they can describe what that means it's about as informative and coherent as saying you have a colour identity which matches your irises.
CuriousaboutSamphire · 16/03/2021 16:17

@StellaAndCrow

Is the only way to know you have a gender identity if you are dysphoric and it doesn't "match"? Do any people that aren't dysphoric have a gender identity? Is it something that everyone has, or is it something only some people have? Thanks.
It SHOULD be one of those things that every individual knows for themselves. For example (and there will be many more examples)

Woman A: is female, all the stereotypes, all the womanly things in socoety, and it matches her biology. She may love make up, wearing pink, baking cakes, being a house wife, all sorts of 'feminine' things.

Woman B: is female but doesn't really like the gender stereotypes so she rejects the idea that she must conform to scietal norms for woman, maybe that means she won;t wear make up, wear a skirt, speak without swearing, work in a less physically taxing job. She may also choose to do any of the 'feminine' things but does so because they are things to be done, she likes, are part of life. But that is up to her!

Woman C: Is female and goesn't give a thought to gender, until she feels the patriachal squeeze to her life: the male hand on her bum, being passed over for a promotion, finding our she is paid less for the same job, etc. She may also choose to do any of the 'feminine' things but does so because they are things to be done, she likes, are part of life. But that is up to her!

Some of those women will have fully free choices, some won't, but they should!

Gender is a social construct. It is sometimes indistinguishable from what is hard wired into us as humans as it is often based on that innate humanit, just magnified to become a social norm.

A mother being primary carer for example. You can see how that is essential for life - breastfeeding for one thing. You can see how emergent societies built themselves around that need, kep the babies alive or die out. You can then see how, when humans evolved further, that it became a sign of wealth, for women not to have to work, a sign of power for men to be the 'bread winner'! And then you can see how that becomes something to rail against when societies become as advanced as we are.

And once you understand that you can see how ludicrous it is to insist that TWAW or TMAM. They aren't. Humans cannot change sex. They just REALLY want to live in the gender stereotypes of the opposite sex. Dysphoria or choice? Doesn't really matter. They do so if they wish. What they cannot do is try to change the material world around them!

ErrolTheDragon · 16/03/2021 16:24

I'm grinning happily at having been out chemistry-nerded.
^Grin

stuckinatrap · 16/03/2021 16:40

So CIS means being on board with, and not unhappy with, the sex you are?

I'm not fucking down with being a woman. I have horrendous periods. I have fainted and vomited from the pain. My GP's solution seems to be 'go on the pill', but I don't respond well to hormonal contraceptives. They make me moody and fat (and then I experience even more distress with my body).

I would have loved someone else to birth and feed my children and take the maternity leave so I could carry on working.

I am really not looking forward to the distress my body is going to cause me as I go through menopause (imminently).

No. I'm not happy with my sexed body. It does cause me distress and if I could choose, I would be a man every time.

I don't get to choose, though. So I'm just a woman.

If you CIS me and try to suggest it fits because I am not distressed by my sex assigned at birth you would be wrong, but I don't have the luxury of changing it or becoming non-binary to escape it.

Mores the pity.

stuckinatrap · 16/03/2021 16:42

Sorry for the interruption, by the way. I'm loving the impromptu chemistry lecture that went beautifully sailing right over my head - you carry on. As you were...

BernardBlackMissesLangCleg · 16/03/2021 16:49

Impressive tone deafness from a poster assuming feminists feel no incongruence about being female in our society

ErrolTheDragon · 16/03/2021 16:51

@BernardBlackMissesLangCleg

Impressive tone deafness from a poster assuming feminists feel no incongruence about being female in our society
Or simple cluelessness maybe?
CardinalLolzy · 16/03/2021 16:53

shizuku you have used this term again:
"your gender identity matches the sex you were assigned at birth"

Please. for the fourth time. Can you either admit you don't know what this means, or set out clearly which gender identity matches with which sex?
Otherwise it's a bit like saying they have a fruit that doesn't match their vegetable - what are the paired sets of gender identity and sex?

Or are you saying that sex and gender are the same thing?

I've just seen you recount entirely incorrectly what you think 'the GC theory' is, so I'm concerned you might have got this muddled as well?

BernardBlackMissesLangCleg · 16/03/2021 16:56

Or simple cluelessness maybe?

Or not caring how women feel?

Juliesipadwillcallyouback · 16/03/2021 16:57

I'm happy with a compromise - I won't refer to anyone here as cis, as long as no one here refers to trans women as male.

But the word 'male' to describe a transwoman of grounded in biological reality. By very definition, in order to be a transwoman, you must be male. And sometimes it is necessary to use the biological correct term to describe a human. For example, in certain medical situations, or when you are talking about single sex provision for women.

The word 'cis' is a word appropriated from chemistry, and for it to mean anything, you have to already have a belief in gender ideology. It doesn't have any grounding in reality, only belief systems.

MichelleofzeResistance · 16/03/2021 16:58

I'm happy with a compromise - I won't refer to anyone here as cis, as long as no one here refers to trans women as male.

You've substituted men for male there.

I'll repeat as earlier: 'men' is the choice of word rejected. 'male' is a fact necessary for female people to distinguish sex based needs to avoid the many, many issues for some female people into being subsumed into a mixed sex gender category of woman. In this case it is not an attempt to be offensive, it's a necessary distinguishing of key difference - and why the hell anyway are we trying to hide the difference instead of valuing it? That it's hurtful to someone male to be reminded of this is very sad for them, but unfortunately isn't sufficient justification to require all female people to pretend they have no issues or needs or differences.

If you don't want female people to have the necessity of pointing out the difference, don't subsume them into that gender group against their will. Live and let live takes two groups mutually respecting each other.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 16/03/2021 16:59

Now now @Juliesipadwillcallyouback you must agree to bargain away your womanhood or be forever branded cis and terf!

And it's only fair you give a little and TRAs take a little, isn't it?

Be nice, play fair, and all that!

Twinkie01 · 16/03/2021 17:12

It's a word that certain people want women to use to describe themselves because they're infuriated that they'll only get as far as being called trans women because they are not actually women.

WeeBisom · 16/03/2021 17:29

I have begged, and pleaded with gender theorists in real life and online to give me some indication of how I can use their concepts in order to find out if, by their definition, I'm a woman. I have cajoled them to find out what exactly is meant by my identify 'matching' my sex - how could I find this out? And they never answer. Ever. Even in face to face conversations - they just refuse. So forgive me for my frustration, but I have no idea how I"m supposed to be on board with gender identity and woman being an 'identity' when the proponents can't even clearly tell me what they believe!

noimnotdoingit · 16/03/2021 17:35

@30PercentRecycled

It is offensive to assign a gender identity to people who are not believers.

Just like if you said to me that I must be a Protestant because you don't see me going to Mass.

Like you then tell me "Protestant just means not Catholic" and persist in describing me as Protestant because it fits with your world view, despite me telling you I'm Jewish or atheist.

I will be extra annoyed if you discuss me saying I am clearly Protestant because you can see my work ethic and lack of images of Mary in my house.

I'm not cis. I'm not Protestant. Stop assigning beliefs to me.

I like this, you've put into words what I've been thinking. I bristle when asked my "gender identity" but am not sure of a polite but pity response that conveys that I don't have, nor do I want one.
Chemistindisguise · 16/03/2021 17:36

I'm glad people enjoyed the slight thread derail into the world of chemistry Grin

I do find it interesting though, as I said upthread, that in the world of sex & gender, the word "trans" has been developed over time - instead of now referring to a journey from A to B eg transition (transsexual), it's now taken to mean being opposite to another relevant point ie two things relative to each other, as in chemistry. Which means you need two things that coexist (gender identity and sex). Thus also use of the word cis.

Ie it's only because the word "trans" can signify two different things (through, and also across from) that the language change worked.

If originally the word "transsexual" had been coined differently (maybe diasexual from the Greek?) it would have made the language around gender identity more distinctive, potentially. Perhaps there would be diasexuals, antigender and arguments around use of "syn-gender" people....

Anyway, I realise this is a rather academic discussion on an emotive subject so I might wander back to my orbitals.....

CardinalLolzy · 16/03/2021 17:50

@WeeBisom

I have begged, and pleaded with gender theorists in real life and online to give me some indication of how I can use their concepts in order to find out if, by their definition, I'm a woman. I have cajoled them to find out what exactly is meant by my identify 'matching' my sex - how could I find this out? And they never answer. Ever. Even in face to face conversations - they just refuse. So forgive me for my frustration, but I have no idea how I"m supposed to be on board with gender identity and woman being an 'identity' when the proponents can't even clearly tell me what they believe!
Ditto. I genuinely really really want to know - it would make life a hell of a lot easier. I get a few hints that it comes down to presentation - what you look like- but asking specifically if this is the case elicits strong refutation, so it's not that.

Laws are being changed to make gender identity replace sex, yet either no-one knows what it means, or no-one wants to say.
My assumption is it's plain old masculinity and femininity, but the last time I asked a TRA specifically if this was true - if gender identity meant something that was not encapsulated in notions of femininity and masculinity... now let's see if i can remember... did they give a full clarification that finally made me understand the concept and therefore the argument....? Oh no, that was it, they just didn't answer.

A familiar theme!

Shizuku · 16/03/2021 17:50

@stuckinatrap

So CIS means being on board with, and not unhappy with, the sex you are?

I'm not fucking down with being a woman. I have horrendous periods. I have fainted and vomited from the pain. My GP's solution seems to be 'go on the pill', but I don't respond well to hormonal contraceptives. They make me moody and fat (and then I experience even more distress with my body).

I would have loved someone else to birth and feed my children and take the maternity leave so I could carry on working.

I am really not looking forward to the distress my body is going to cause me as I go through menopause (imminently).

No. I'm not happy with my sexed body. It does cause me distress and if I could choose, I would be a man every time.

I don't get to choose, though. So I'm just a woman.

If you CIS me and try to suggest it fits because I am not distressed by my sex assigned at birth you would be wrong, but I don't have the luxury of changing it or becoming non-binary to escape it.

Mores the pity.

I'm afraid that you have mistaken dysphoria about being female for dysphoria about what happens to females. They are 2 very different things.

A trans man would feel gender dysphoria even in a world without misogyny, menstrual pain and all the other things you list.

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