"Hundreds defy ban to attend Clapham vigil"

[TheRabbitOfCaerbannog]

www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/sarah-everard-vigil-defy-police-ban-clapham-common-b923959.html

She’s a University student. She was clearly still really upset when I saw her interviewed this morning on GMTV

@Lisz

My grandfather was Antifa; fought and very nearly died for his country in WW2, as i'm sure many of our relatives did. He was left half-starved after 10 months in a Japanese POW camp and had to be put in extreme R and R in a hospital for 2 months until he was fit and well enough to come back home. He was proudly Antifa* and was as 'mainstream' part of society as you could ever get. Makes me queasy to read people say the Anti-fash are anarchists and 'not mainstream society'. Whoever says as much should be glad people went abroad and served as Antifa, so they could then sit on a message board decades later bleating about commies.

*they called them The Allies back then.

Wow, that is probably the worst false equivalence I have ever seen.

Utterly, utterly false.

Powerful words from comments on an UnHerd article:

"I didn’t go last night.
I wanted to. Wanted to join in with others who felt so personally connected to this loss, this crime.
I didn’t go. Planned to. Wanted to show my daughters the strength of female solidarity.
But as soon as the victim’s family asked people to stay away, I felt I couldn’t. Because at that point, the nature of the event had changed.
Instead of this being a moment to reflect on this loss, it became a tool for people to air their political grievances. An opportunity for grandstanding and self-publicity.
I went today.
All the trampled flowers replaced. Women laying their Mother’s Day bouquets. Men, women, children. The young and the old. Quietly paying tribute. No megaphones, no speeches. No agitation, no aggression.
Watching the images of last night was extremely disturbing. But being there today was humbling. A collective sense of wanting the world to be a better place, and the question of how our society has deteriorated to such a degree. Sadness, but also hope.
I want my daughters’ futures to be in the hands of those present today. Not the police of last night. And not the girl with the red hair.

I agree with every word.

That's lovely. And sad.

On a completely different subject: it would be really great, and show even greater respect, if instead of just putting flowers wrapped in cellophane at the site of a vigil people took the wrapper off before they placed them. The people who clear them up after they have stopped looking at their best will be very grateful: inside the plastic, they rot and become disgusting, outside it nothing like as much.

I still remember gas-masks being worn by people who cleared up the remains of the memorials from outside Kensington Palace in 1997 after the death of Diana. They were supposed to betaken and given to hospitals and the like, as were the teddy-bears and other tributes, but all too many of them were fit for nothing and couldn't even be composted because of the plastic mixed in with them.

I watched what should have been a reflective vigil on live stream. It was after midnight when the police took the arrested individuals back to the vans.

I'm extremely surprised to hear that. The timeline from what I experienced was this:

Women are arriving in dribs and drabs throughout the afternoon. More women start to gather as it gets closer to 6pm. At 6pm two women from Sisters Uncut go onto the bandstand and start reciting poetry, reciting names of women murdered by male violence, and call for a minute's silence. Male police go onto the bandstand to arrest them and frogmarch them away. This happened approx 6.15pm.

The police arresting the speakers caused other people to go onto the bandstand, which police encouraged and allowed. At some point the police formed a human wall around the bandstand, kettling the women on the bandstand. Driving women onto the bandstand appeared to be a deliberate act by the police. Between 6.30-7.30 protestors (mostly women sitting quietly on the floor) were kettled in the bandstand while police tried to fight the crowds of mostly peaceful women. At this point some members of the crowd started to lead anti-police chants, which others took up in outrage at witnessing police violence and hostility towards peaceful vigil-attendees.

Patsy was thrown to the ground and arrested at 7.24pm. (I checked the time stamp on my own video.)

The bandstand was completely cleared by 7.35, except for press who were permitted to remain.

Police then released some of the women, and started to move other arrested women towards the van. They put someone/some people (couldn't see who) into the vans, and at that point the vast majority of police left and almost all the police vans left. This was about 8pm.

By 8.15pm all but a half a dozen police had gone (and those half a dozen stood in a huddle some distance from the bandstand), and the vigil proceeded with no police presence and was completely peaceful. No one was chanting or giving speeches, just women quietly lighting candles and paying respects.

Between 8.30-9pm most people had started to make their way home and the Common was empty. I left around 8.45 and it was almost deserted at that point.

I don't know what happened after that point but I'm very surprised to learn there was more action hours later. Certainly all the women who'd been arrested at the actual protested had either been released or taken away in vans hours earlier. So it's not true that they waited five hours to put the arrested women into vans.

If anything kicked off after midnight then I honestly doubt it had anything to do with the vigil at all.

I know there was a separate incident at the Windmill (which is clear on the opposite side of the common) where a police van wing mirror was damaged. It's unclear whether that had anything to do with the vigil.

The only violence towards police I witnessed was the four male anti-maskers shoving police (they were not arrested) and one single police van had "ACAB" drawn on it. No other abuse or violence. No abuse from any of the women.

Trying to pretend that women mouthing off is "verbal abuse" is just shocking - you should have heard some of the nasty and disrespectful comments the police were making from the very start of the vigil, including during the minute silence!

This idea that the police will suddenly kick off and incense a gathering out of their own volition is ridiculous.

That is absolutely what happened.

When police officers tried to remove people from stamping on flowers for Sarah they refused.

The only people who stamped on the flowers were the police! The protestors were the ones trying to protect the flowers from being trampled by police. The police officer who wrote this is a liar, period.

That's a powerful comment, Erkrie.

@rosetylersbiggun
The only women who should have been there should have been living within walking distance of the common, anyone else was breaking lockdown and deserved everything they got. Once Sarah's family had stated they didn't agree with this "vigil" you all lost any tenuous moral reasons you may claim for holding it. Candles could have been peacefully lit around the country in a beautiful show of love and compassion, instead Sarah's legacy is now one of violence and hate. I hope you're all proud of yourselves

"deserved everything they got" is an unfortunate phrase to use here.

Choice of phrase, even

[quote Tessabelle74]@rosetylersbiggun
The only women who should have been there should have been living within walking distance of the common, anyone else was breaking lockdown and deserved everything they got. Once Sarah's family had stated they didn't agree with this "vigil" you all lost any tenuous moral reasons you may claim for holding it. Candles could have been peacefully lit around the country in a beautiful show of love and compassion, instead Sarah's legacy is now one of violence and hate. I hope you're all proud of yourselves[/quote]
I live 0.3miles from the site of the vigil. I went with flowers as part of my usual evening dog walk, having read the day before how Sarah’s family were supportive of the vigil, and knowing several of her friends would be going along.
Tell me, wise oracle, what did I deserve?

Also, can you clarify if should be proud of myself

Tell me, wise oracle, what did I deserve?

You deserved to be able to do your local dog walk and lay your flowers respectfully in peace.

Candles could have been peacefully lit around the country in a beautiful show of love and compassion,

They were, unfortunately probably being overlooked now. Here's a photo from a bbc report, for example.

[quote sparechange]@Keeping2ChevronsApart

Professional protester? In what sense?[/quote]
Conspiracy theory about crisis actors being pushed to discredit any women involved in the vigil.

@rosetylersbiggun

I watched what should have been a reflective vigil on live stream. It was after midnight when the police took the arrested individuals back to the vans.

I'm extremely surprised to hear that. The timeline from what I experienced was this:

Women are arriving in dribs and drabs throughout the afternoon. More women start to gather as it gets closer to 6pm. At 6pm two women from Sisters Uncut go onto the bandstand and start reciting poetry, reciting names of women murdered by male violence, and call for a minute's silence. Male police go onto the bandstand to arrest them and frogmarch them away. This happened approx 6.15pm.

The police arresting the speakers caused other people to go onto the bandstand, which police encouraged and allowed. At some point the police formed a human wall around the bandstand, kettling the women on the bandstand. Driving women onto the bandstand appeared to be a deliberate act by the police. Between 6.30-7.30 protestors (mostly women sitting quietly on the floor) were kettled in the bandstand while police tried to fight the crowds of mostly peaceful women. At this point some members of the crowd started to lead anti-police chants, which others took up in outrage at witnessing police violence and hostility towards peaceful vigil-attendees.

Patsy was thrown to the ground and arrested at 7.24pm. (I checked the time stamp on my own video.)

The bandstand was completely cleared by 7.35, except for press who were permitted to remain.

Police then released some of the women, and started to move other arrested women towards the van. They put someone/some people (couldn't see who) into the vans, and at that point the vast majority of police left and almost all the police vans left. This was about 8pm.

By 8.15pm all but a half a dozen police had gone (and those half a dozen stood in a huddle some distance from the bandstand), and the vigil proceeded with no police presence and was completely peaceful. No one was chanting or giving speeches, just women quietly lighting candles and paying respects.

Between 8.30-9pm most people had started to make their way home and the Common was empty. I left around 8.45 and it was almost deserted at that point.

I don't know what happened after that point but I'm very surprised to learn there was more action hours later. Certainly all the women who'd been arrested at the actual protested had either been released or taken away in vans hours earlier. So it's not true that they waited five hours to put the arrested women into vans.

If anything kicked off after midnight then I honestly doubt it had anything to do with the vigil at all.

I know there was a separate incident at the Windmill (which is clear on the opposite side of the common) where a police van wing mirror was damaged. It's unclear whether that had anything to do with the vigil.

The only violence towards police I witnessed was the four male anti-maskers shoving police (they were not arrested) and one single police van had "ACAB" drawn on it. No other abuse or violence. No abuse from any of the women.

Trying to pretend that women mouthing off is "verbal abuse" is just shocking - you should have heard some of the nasty and disrespectful comments the police were making from the very start of the vigil, including during the minute silence!

This idea that the police will suddenly kick off and incense a gathering out of their own volition is ridiculous.

That is absolutely what happened.

When police officers tried to remove people from stamping on flowers for Sarah they refused.

The only people who stamped on the flowers were the police! The protestors were the ones trying to protect the flowers from being trampled by police. The police officer who wrote this is a liar, period.

This is also the version I know to be true. Thank you

Heads up - speculation on the conspiracy theory mentioned above has been nipped in the bud on another board - which I broadly agree with.

@ThisIsSimplyBeyond
I posted my words exactly as I meant them

@Sparechange try reading my comment properly. As you were within walking distance, you had genuine reason to be there, the rest made none essential journeys to an illegal gathering, those are the ones that have hijacked Sarah's name against her families wishes, which is shameful

@ErrolTheDragon
That is my point nicely made, thank you. All Sarah's name will be linked to now is more violence, her poor family didn't want this that's what I'm annoyed about the most

sorry I haven't RTFT, but what's annoying me is the picture and film of the woman being arrested and looking up, in the media she isn't wearing a mask, yet in the original tweets she is. there is also a short video clip of her presumably shouting, without a mask but there is awful blurring around her mouth area, like a mask has been badly edited out.

Has this been brought up at all, and what can done, because surely it's not right?

Once Sarah's family had stated they didn't agree with this "vigil" you all lost any tenuous moral reasons you may claim for holding it.

That's been debunked as a lie invented by someone on social media who wanted to attack and discredit women.

Sarah's family did not say a single word about the vigil ahead of time, but have made comments since that are supportive of the protestors.

It's a real shame that people read something on Facebook and just blindly believe it, without bothering to fact check. Do a google search for Sarah Everard vigil parents, there's nothing. If they had made such a statement, it would have been repeated on every single news outlet.

@rosetylersbiggun

Is the Spiked Blog piece apparently by one of her friends genuine as far as you know?

I think the Spiked piece is really inappropriate at this time as well to be honest.

We are in LOCKDOWN! The Everard family said not to gather, the law said NO. What more to be said.
Do we really want another 3 months of sitting indoors and twiddling our thumbs. The family said NO.
Note the anti-police agitators waited til dark to to start their baying at the police. Absolutely disgraceful that nobody asked them to shut up.

Did the police put the mask on her or take it off.
Im watching on channel 4 news now and shes not wearing a mask while they put the handcuffs on and raise her to her feet.

And now more surge testing in London boroughs due to more variants. Comply with the law and don't gather in groups. No exceptions.
Let's get this country up and running again. Haven't people suffered enough.

If I had a fucking bingo card for this thread, I'd have won the Gala jackpot several times over by now

The Everard family said not to gather. The family said NO.

NO THEY DID NOT.

Jesus Christ, stop being so gullible and believing any old guff you read on Facebook.
Do we really want another 3 months of sitting indoors and twiddling our thumbs.
There's little risk of spreading Covid outdoors with everyone wearing masks. Chris Whitty said outdoor protests like BLM last summer and other outdoor mass gatherings had little impact on Covid rates. What percentage of the crowd were vaccinated?

Besides if Covid is your concern, put your blame on the police who kettled women, forced physical contact, and incited a short peaceful vigil into a two-hour standoff. If police had not overreacted to aggressively the vigil would have ended far earlier, and thus reduced potential of spreading Covid.

Note the anti-police agitators waited til dark to to start their baying at the police.

Were you there? Because that's simply not true. The police waited till dark to start throwing women around for reciting poetry. The anti-police chants started because and as a direct result of the police aggression.

Absolutely disgraceful that nobody asked them to shut up.
The tiny handful who were there with an agenda - like the four male anti-maskers, and the one guy with a loudhailer - were all shouted down by the huge crowd of women. Not by police, the police did their best to ignore them!

Is the Spiked Blog piece apparently by one of her friends genuine as far as you know?
No idea, but "self-professed friend" is not the same as a parent or sibling. I'm not taking my cue from someone claiming to be a mate of Sarah's, spreading NAMALT in a "Neo Marxist" website known for engaging in genocide-denial.