TW nominated for the womens prize for fiction

[Kit19]

for fucks fucking sake!

"Peters’ longlisting comes after organisers clarified in 2020 that it was open to any “cis woman, a transgender woman or anyone who is legally defined as a woman or of the female sex”. “It’s a prize for women, and trans women are women, so …” said chair of judges and author Bernardine Evaristo."

How are trans men getting on at progressing in all the stuff from dominated by men? I'd be interested in hearing their voices more.

The day a trans man author is on a major book prize shortlist (for anything - any subject!) is the day I’ll accept that true acceptance of identity issues is not just Women Make Room.

Great review, 2olives. I really REALLY don’t want to buy it but would like to read it. We should set up a FWR book swap...

I don’t think women need anyone else to tell them when a concept is misogynist and/or offensive to women.

I also don’t think it would most women’s minds to read that reviews by strangers fail to note the misogyny.

What I meant was that IF the author explored their thoughts and concluded it was rank misogyny etc then maybe..

I don't think it does though as far as I know.

It's also not appropriate to be entered for a women's prize.

There is a prize for trans literature. I expect it could get a lot of attention at the moment.

That would mean that through the two prizes the maximum of women and trans authors would get publicity.

The fact that is never good enough says it all really.

Sorry for going off track, but your thoughts of the 16th woman reminded me very much of Lydia Davis' short story 'The Thirteenth Woman':

In a town of twelve women there was a thirteenth. No one admitted she lived there, no mail came for her, no one spoke of her, no one asked after her, no one sold bread to her, no one bought anything from her, no one returned her glance, no one knocked on her door; the rain did not fall on her. the sun never shone on her, the day never dawned on her, the night never fell for her; for her the weeks did not pass, the years did not roll by; her house was unnumbered, her garden untended, her path not trod upon, her bed not slept in, her food not eaten, her clothes not worn; and yet in spite of all this she continued to live in the town without resenting what it did to her.

@NiceGerbil

I agree with every thing you wrote above.

@Ormally

I will read that. Sounds thought provoking.

One major problem is that you can’t have anything just for women now - but the same doesn’t happen to men because there don’t tend to be special categories for men. Except in sports and trans men would usually be on a hiding to nothing there.

Before trans ideology, no one including the TW themselves would have thought a TW was eligible for a women’s prize. Out of respect for women and the point of a prize invented to redress the balance of sexism, they and their publishers wouldn’t have gone there. But new trans ideology is really mainly about males deliberately trying to break into women’s spaces and take women’s places, and uses the “bigot” line to shame and bully anyone who objects. Plus you get the “genital checking” argument saying no one ever really knew who was a woman anyway.

I think it’s fucking ridiculous and tragic for women, the whole thing. So angry and fucked off. BUT whatever Peters’ intention, this kind of thing is what’s helping a lot of people to wake up. Longer term, when I have my positive hat on, and not withstanding all the horrible harm caused - I think trans ideology could be the biggest shot in the arm for feminism for a long time.

@2Olives1Onion

I've just noticed that this book has arrived in the library at my DC's school. I was wondering what age group you would think the content was appropriate for?

What Detransition Baby is in the DC school?

Yes, they have bought all of the shortlist of the Women's Prize for Fiction

[quote parentalhelpline]@2Olives1Onion

I've just noticed that this book has arrived in the library at my DC's school. I was wondering what age group you would think the content was appropriate for?[/quote]
Looking at a few pages - I'd say no - categorically not suitable for school children. The MC article gives a content warning of domestic violence and substance abuse

an excerpt
"You're getting a lot more candor out of me than I'm used to," her cowboy said, sounding surprised at himself, even as he squeezed Reese's tits. "The power of pussy, I guess." "You might get my pussy," she responded, enjoying herself and aping his cowboy drawl, "but a good woman'll flay your soul."

Reese was twenty-six the first time a man hit her—as a man will sometimes hit a woman: not to injure her, necessarily, but to show her something. The blow, an open-handed hook, caught her as she opened her mouth to insult him. She hadn’t seen his hand coming. Her head jerked back. Her vision wavered. Surprise turned to pain, which in turn surprised her with its force. “Really?” she asked quietly.

He coiled his muscles tight again, as if to show her that yes, really. If she had it all to do over, she would have spat at him. But her body, which did not like pain, betrayed her, and without thinking, she flinched and blurted out, “I’m sorry.” Satisfied, his shoulders dropped.

Copper trickled thinly from a split lip into the cracks between her teeth. She probed the edges of the cut with her tongue, while her hands hung motionless at her sides, the stillness of an animal turned statue before a predator.

www.marieclaire.com/culture/a35289731/detransition-baby-torrey-peters-excerpt/

Definitely not school material

Thanks, gardenbird48. That's so grim. I imagine the school will argue it's one for the sixth-formers but I don't know how they'll police that. Not that I would be encouraging my sixth-former to read it in any case.

There's an issue about it being x-rated in itself, with explicit sex - but I think the fact that it's misogynist porn is another, separate issue. It glorifies violence towards women. I'd be asking the school if that's really what they want to be promoting to kids?

And we wonder how pornography and violence to women is normalised. I cannot imagine why this is in any school. Are all the longlisted books there? If not why this one?

Yes, they have all been purchased.

It's going to be very tricky to complain for various personal reasons. I'm wondering if I can find another parent or teacher to join me.

I haven't looked through the other short-listed books yet. Does anyone know if they are appropriate for a secondary school readership?

No doubt this will be the book that is looked at the most...but at least there is more of a choice than I imagined! Perhaps it could be interred on an upper shelf somewhere. In the local libraries when I was young you had to ask for certain books....

gardenbird48

I would have said that excerpt was glorifying sexual violence, possibly the author even getting off on it?

Did the school library have a copy of 50 Shades of Grey?

The current increased awareness of violence against women and the questions being asked about how to address it makes it easier to complain to school about this book being available for sixth formers, and harder for them to justify it. The issue is glorification of violent sex, and the promotion of the idea that women love being abused. This is so entirely inappropriate for a school library that I don't even know where to start.

The sex of the author and their eligibility for the Women's Prize is a separate issue that doesn't need to be mentioned to the school. I'd just focus on getting it off the shelves.

@AbsintheFriends

The current increased awareness of violence against women and the questions being asked about how to address it makes it easier to complain to school about this book being available for sixth formers, and harder for them to justify it. The issue is glorification of violent sex, and the promotion of the idea that women love being abused. This is so entirely inappropriate for a school library that I don't even know where to start.

The sex of the author and their eligibility for the Women's Prize is a separate issue that doesn't need to be mentioned to the school. I'd just focus on getting it off the shelves.

Thank you, that's helpful. I'm assuming the rest of the shortlist doesn't promote those ideas? I don't want to be accused of targeting the trans author.

As an ex school librarian. Buying award nominated books is standard practise. They are often marketed as a special priced set without guidance on suitability. The library staff might not be aware of the contents or read the books. They will rely on community feedback, including parental feedback. So please don't worry that you will be judged (more likely to be thanked tbh).

School libraries have the same duty of care as the school. They are not public libraries or book shops.

They may say it is an important resource for older students, those studying media or Eng lit - but it would come with guidance and teachers can be briefed so that it can be discussed and contextualised. Could even help with discussions around normalisation of VAW.

Teens are draw to "risk". Better an open discussion than subvertive unchallenged indoctrination.

Seems that operating under the radar "no debate" is how we got into this mess in the first place.

Please, do write in.

Thanks, Akela64 - I'll try drafting something that spells out the issues whilst being appreciative of their work in generally enlarging my DCs horizons.

[quote parentalhelpline]@2Olives1Onion

I've just noticed that this book has arrived in the library at my DC's school. I was wondering what age group you would think the content was appropriate for?[/quote]
It's definitely written for an adult target audience (18+). But a lot of teenagers read adult fiction, and the longlist will all be adult contemporary fiction or adult literary fiction.

I think this book is a lot to engage with. I've seen (amateur) reviews that admitted they didn't fully "get" it and found the sexual content unnecessary. I've also seen glib and glowing and very superficial professional reviews which really didn't understand it but didn't admit they didn't. I also think this isn't going to interest most teenagers unless they've seen or heard the hype or they have a particular interest in transgender lives, voices, etc. Just reading the jacket blurb - middle-aged people blending a family around an unexpected baby probably isn't going to trigger most teens' "must read!" instincts.

If this were a book that contained a lot of traumatic sexual violence which was essential to the story AND it was a rare perspective and necessary read in spite of that, I'd say it's OK for older teens but maybe better with an adult's guidance. (I'm thinking of something like Tupa Tjipombo's I Am Not Your Slave or Buried Beneath the Baobab Tree by Adaobi Tricia Nwaubani, although now that I think about it even these works are not as graphic.) In this case, though - I really can't see the book being taught in a class of even 17 year olds and I would not be happy about the impact that teaching it or making it required reading would have on female students.

If you are going to raise the issue (I think I would): I agree with PPs who said focus on the misogynist attitude toward women and how potentially dangerous it is in the current climate. I wouldn't even mention that the author is trans because I would criticize it the same way regardless of the demographic characteristics of the author.

As far as the explicit sex aspect is concerned - I'm American, and (for good or ill) that would probably be enough to get it removed from US school libraries, but I think attitides in the UK are somewhat different. Maybe focusing on the legitimizing violence against women aspect but using some examples that are also graphically sexual might make an impact on the decision-makers. It sounds likely that they bought this book as part of a set (the prize longlist) and may not have vetted it individually. Good luck!

2Olives1Onion

Thank you so much - that's really useful. I like the idea of suggesting alternative authors too. I'm going to draft something today and work out who to send it to.