Almost all young women in the UK have been sexually harrassed

[Kit19]

this is heartbreaking and I wish I could say surprising but it isnt. Women have no faith it will be dealt with either

Wank

I thought buswanker was aimed at those who had to get the bus home after a night out because they didn't have a car. Not to do with porn. Unless the meaning has now shifted.

think she means a kid literally having a walk on the bus - nothing to do with the inbetweeners phrase

Oh

@Erkrie

I thought buswanker was aimed at those who had to get the bus home after a night out because they didn't have a car. Not to do with porn. Unless the meaning has now shifted.

It does

@Erkrie

I've lost track of the amount of times I've been sexually harassed. Occasionally it extended to being sexually assaulted. From males of all ages.

Same. And in various countries, not just the UK.

Men often seem to think it's an exaggeration or we're blowing it out of proportion. Yeah, I must have imagined having my crotch grabbed twice in a crowd, or imagined the man on the beach openly masturbating as my friends and I walked by.

An old friend from work once told me how, in the 80s, she was sexually harassed for years (verbal and groping) by male colleagues. I knew some of the men who did this to her, I'd gone drinking with them sometimes, had a laugh with them, liked them, had considered them friends. I have never been able to straighten that out in my head.

I really don’t think the message is getting out to men that this is a serious problem.

I was 36 before I discovered the reality of what is was/is to be a girl growing up, going to bars, clubs, dating etc etc.

Of the 4 serious relationships I’ve had, each girl has told me of how she had been sexually harassed or assaulted or raped in her past.

None of the assaults or rapes were ever reported. An incident of teenage rape left the survivor believing it was somehow her fault and the other rapes were date-rape or excessive alcohol to the point where the survivors didn’t know what had actually happened.

I know I’m telling you nothing you don’t already know but this sickens me to the core and I feel that men are doing absolutely f-all about it.

Everything seems to be left for women to sort out.

None of the assaults or rapes were ever reported. An incident of teenage rape left the survivor believing it was somehow her fault and the other rapes were date-rape or excessive alcohol to the point where the survivors didn’t know what had actually happened.

Yes totally this. Out of all the occasions (and there were so many of being touched /assaulted /grabbed) three were reported to the police. One being followed home and flashed at around age 13 or so. (Police didn't catch him). One at age 17 which I now know to be grooming gang related (police didn't do anything). One being sexually assaulted in a pub, (police tried to do something, the pub and customers closed ranks to protect perpetrator ).Going forward, I put up with it and blamed myself. This would be cemented by the various perpetrators publicly laying the blame on me for being forward and up for it, (I wasn't, I was just polite, naive and friendly). But that was the narrative.

I blamed myself for taking risks, going out too much, walking home at night alone. But really, it's not my fault. It's the fault of those men who can't keep their hands to themselves. I worry for my daughter. Already I've taught her to be hyper alert, to learn from my 'mistakes' aware of her surroundings at all times, being careful to make sure she's safe getting home. She does martial arts. I'm not sure even then it will all be enough to protect her.

If only men had a curfew.

You just don’t report the groping, pinching, rubbing, leering/comments, catcalling, following... the police would be inundated.

@Erkrie

I thought buswanker was aimed at those who had to get the bus home after a night out because they didn't have a car. Not to do with porn. Unless the meaning has now shifted.

I think it was this in the programme. One of the boys had got a car and they were shouting at people waiting for a bus. Uncouth and frightening for a young girl who doesn't know what it's about but nothing to do with porn or sexual at all.

Men need to be held far more accountable for their actions.

And men NEED role models that are outspoken feminist... we have none

I was quite badly sexually harrassed and grobed by boys in my year group when I was twelve, and it went on for most of the year until the ringleader moved to another school. This was in the early nineties.
And the teachers knew. I remember a couple of male teachers rolling their eyes and giving the boys a minor telling off of the 'Stop flirting with Turtles and finish your worksheet' variety even when I was constantly trying to move away from them and in tears.
I couldn't work out for years why I didn't talk to my parents about it, but when you're a shy child and the teacher clearly doesn't think it's a big deal, it doesn't occur to you to complain. I thought it was just part of growing up and becoming a woman.

As an older woman who started work in the seventies in the factories, sexual harassment was the norm, life was a bit like a Benny Hill sketch. I returned to education and went to work in Local Authority. First I noticed the sexual harassment was certainly less obvious but still occurred. Gradually it decreased as legislation grew and strengthened until it was at a point that it was practically invisible and unheard of.
Long story short a few years ago I ended up in the cleaning/housekeeping game. From here I have been agog at how young female cleaners are treated by male bosses and male office staff.
A young female cleaner has no rights that they can access or power to defend themselves, seriously they don't. Until a year ago I was working in a huge PBSA. I worked with one young woman who expressed that she was becoming afraid of a newly promoted supervisor. He was a car crash and struggled greatly in the role. I myself had problems with him in regard to my performance which I soon wrapped up and put it to bed. Rumours were circulating that he bullying a couple of housekeepers from other sites.

On my site it quickly became obvious that he didn't know how to interact with this girl. He would swing from openly hostile to overly nice, then the stepping into her personal space started and following her around the site. She understandably became increasingly scared of him. Very sadly she had little support from her team members mainly because they were playing him, coming in late, going early!
Eventually she complained, he was suspended, they took statements from other staff but not me and another woman who was concerned that he turning into a sex crazed coke head, capable of anything. Anyhow he was found guilty and disciplined. Was he sacked, did he have to work away from the girl. No, however she was offered the option of moving to a site that was in the process of being sold.

She absolutely fell apart, this at the time destroyed her. I myself was blown away that this could happen but also the callousness with which she was treated when she became ill. When she left it was like she never existed, any mention of her name was politely ignored. A few months later, in a staff room and another new supervisor I delivered a speech on how useless the management were. I was sacked for using and foul abusive language. BTW we were both Trade Union members!

@JustTurtlesAllTheWayDown

I was quite badly sexually harrassed and grobed by boys in my year group when I was twelve, and it went on for most of the year until the ringleader moved to another school. This was in the early nineties. And the teachers knew. I remember a couple of male teachers rolling their eyes and giving the boys a minor telling off of the 'Stop flirting with Turtles and finish your worksheet' variety even when I was constantly trying to move away from them and in tears. I couldn't work out for years why I didn't talk to my parents about it, but when you're a shy child and the teacher clearly doesn't think it's a big deal, it doesn't occur to you to complain. I thought it was just part of growing up and becoming a woman.

I have two daughters in primary school and would love to be able to arrange for someone to talk to Parents or even just the dads about what our children are likely to face (or do) as they go through their school lives.

I can’t help thinking that a lot of parents put on rose tinted glasses or even put their heads in the sand when it comes how girls and boys interact with each other.

I am so fucking angry that were having to fight the exact same fights, decades and decades of women sharing their experiences of harassment and violence, and for what? Were in the same position we've always been, still making our world smaller to minimise risk, still changing our behaviour in the vague hope it'll protect us, all because men won't change their behaviour?! Fucks sake.

@MedusasBadHairDay

I am so fucking angry that were having to fight the exact same fights, decades and decades of women sharing their experiences of harassment and violence, and for what? Were in the same position we've always been, still making our world smaller to minimise risk, still changing our behaviour in the vague hope it'll protect us, all because men won't change their behaviour?! Fucks sake.

Because any message to men telling them not to sexually objectify women is drowned out by the ludicrous increase in on line pornography (of which 99% does not depict ‘normal’ sex) and the vast sexualisation of women on social media such as Instagram and tiktoc.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4188895-To-think-that-violence-against-women-is-a-hate-crime

Thread up on violence against women being a hate crime in AIBU

The entire narrative of what it is to be a ‘real’ man needs to be completely rewritten and farmed out globally.

...and toxic masculinity needs to be called out at every turn and made completely socially unacceptable.

Can anyone find the details on what the survey actually defined as sexual harassment? I looked at the links and all I could see was that only 3% had 'not experienced any of the behaviours we asked about', but what were these behaviours? Does it include men calling 'cheer up love' at you in the street? If so, am surprised it's not 100%! On the other hand, if it only includes more 'serious' stuff, I'm surprised it's as high as 97%. But difficult to judge without the information on what they actually asked! I'm in general suspicious of statistics when the full information is not available. That said, I think the real number is likely to be very high, which is really awful.

I would really like to see one of these surveys where they took equal numbers of men and women and asked them the same questions. It would be much more powerful to be able to state that for example 97% of women and 14% of men have experienced sexual harassment. Does anyone know of any recent survey like this?

@FeistySheep

Can anyone find the details on what the survey actually defined as sexual harassment? I looked at the links and all I could see was that only 3% had 'not experienced any of the behaviours we asked about', but what were these behaviours? Does it include men calling 'cheer up love' at you in the street? If so, am surprised it's not 100%! On the other hand, if it only includes more 'serious' stuff, I'm surprised it's as high as 97%. But difficult to judge without the information on what they actually asked! I'm in general suspicious of statistics when the full information is not available. That said, I think the real number is likely to be very high, which is really awful.

I would really like to see one of these surveys where they took equal numbers of men and women and asked them the same questions. It would be much more powerful to be able to state that for example 97% of women and 14% of men have experienced sexual harassment. Does anyone know of any recent survey like this?

I gave thought to a survey of men and women but I realised that a lot of men wouldn’t see what has happened to them as sexual harassment.

I’ve been very occasionally in my life had my bum tapped or biceps squeezed etc and I’m sure some guys have had a hell of a lot more attention than me, but I would wager that most blokes wouldn’t see it as sexual harassment, just ego boosting flirting.

I am pretty sure the reason they’d rarely see it as harassment is because they don’t feel intimidated, belittled or threatened by it.

Sadly for a survey to work the men answering the questions would probably need a good deal of educating first or have the questions spelt out to them very clearly.

Yep, the questions would definitely need to be written out clearly so that both sexes were answering on exactly the same behaviours. Sure this could be managed though, and it would be very useful research!

@FeistySheep

Yep, the questions would definitely need to be written out clearly so that both sexes were answering on exactly the same behaviours. Sure this could be managed though, and it would be very useful research!

I’d be happy to be involved in creating and or getting out their into the public domain.

I wish I could also help, but this is not my field. If you do get involved though Chriswt, good on you!

@334bu

Yes men do get harassed on occasions and may well understand the humiliation women feel. However, what they will never experience is the fear experienced by women trying to get past a crowd of leering young men in a quiet street, the fear felt when being pursued down a street by a strange man and the fear that comes from the knowledge that if a man wants to hurt you there is nothing you can do about it.

Indeed, please don't think that I'm equating my one mildly unpleasant shift at work with what many women go through on a daily basis with the fear that if they call the behaviour out, they will be the next murder victim. My post was simply that I understand why someone wouldn't be the least bit "flattered" by unpleasant attention from some old creep.

My mother ( now in her 80's ) was a secretary and she said she was harassed all the time and you just learnt to deal with it and not complain. When I asked if she was fine with her daughter being sexually assaulted and putting up with it she had a moment.